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Random EV thoughts.....

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,023 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    I was FC in a large truck haulage company of fresh products, those trucks are on the road almost 24/7, the cab arrives back, the driver switches trailer and refuels and his day is done with next driver taking over, rests are during off loading and every part of the country is covered so there were plenty of 2m kms cabs still in day to day use. If the trailer was not 98%+ filled then questions would be asked, shipping fresh air is a crime in a haulage company, wherever possible return to base journeys would be milk runs of worthwhile drops offs. There is no way in hell a driver would stop for a refuel in a public station, all that happens at base during shift changeover. Breaking into a battery recharge would mess with hours available on shift work and drivers hours are regulatory controlled.

    It will take a dramatic event for EV trucks to take over, if even one had to be purchased the company would go bust, margins are brutal.

    The US is very different, long straight roads and vehicle manufacturers in the US make their vehicles for long straight road runs.

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. EDDI, hot water cylinder, roof rails...

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,936 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Although that's the case in Ireland, in Europe there is very significant long hauler market where the same driver has a truck for multiple days and does runs across multiple countries. I've a friend who does Spain-Poland, he used to do UK-Poland before Brexit and Sweden-Poland before that. As night approaches you see many of the motorway stopovers start to fill up and the more popular stops would easily have 50-100 trucks parked up in every available space. In Northern Italy even there are so many trucks overnighting on the busier routes that it's rare to pass a motorway emergency stop without a truck in it after 11. There is definitely a sufficient market for EV trucks in Europe if not here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 894 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    For service agents and mechanics etc in commercials it's a totally different practical use compared to a privately owned passenger car.

    Colleague of mine has a company Hilux and does 1,200km per week, vehicle cost for BIK is €36k. Not his vehicle so if it was an electric Hilux all charging may well be public adding extra grid demand during peak times. Value of a notional electric Hilux for BIK, maybe €60k? Why would he choose electric and be worse off, or commercial BIK would have to be waived as an incentive.

    Consuming over 35kWh/100km in winter could be a real world motorway range of 200kms. Could be starting each day with 50% battery might need 3 charges that day if doing a long run. Some days he does 600km so days 120km. Does the company install a home charger and pay for the leccy? Will a separate meter be needed for this, and then the employee up and leaves the company!

    I don't think the commercial fleet can be electrified unless they can charge in under 5 minutes, which is solid state not yet widely available technology. A large capacity PHEV or my beloved REX would just be ran on petrol the whole time in reality.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,765 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    Question about the SEAT/VW/Elli apps....we charge/easycharging etc they are called.

    I have just received my card for my Cupra and I will try it out over xmas break at a few public chargers while I have the time.

    Can this same account be put on multiple phones and used on more than 1 vehicle, or are chargers activated by cards only?

    2 reasons for this....

    I'd like my OH to be able to use her phone to charge my car on my account if she has my car and not have to pay another 9.99 per month subscription fee. I will leave the card in the car but in the event of the next point it may not always be in it

    I'd also like to be able to charge my fathers etron when I have it, he hasnt signed up for any public chargers etc nor is he likely to, he is not doing any long trips and just charges at home



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    DHL and DPD bought several electric long haul trucks, so the model must work somehow?

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,408 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    This analysis is applying new tech / new ways of doing things to an existing fossil fuel model.

    Change or die

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,023 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    They are big enough to afford it and carry the downsides of EV trucks

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,023 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. EDDI, hot water cylinder, roof rails...

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,936 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Ah sorry, I saw unkel and raisin's posts about EU limits/roads and I thought the context of the discussion was broader than Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 894 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    I agree with change and use of new tech etc. In reality there is a requirement for service technicians to get to site on time no matter what. Essential public infrastructure or in the case of MNCs equipment worth millions can't have a delayed response. It's a needs based model not a fossil fuel model.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,446 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Not going to happen. And if the mean Irish Government attempted it, it would be a complete disaster. It can't be done without synergistic massive infrastructure development, both charging as well as the grid, energy storage and power generation etc. The Gov won't do it unless forced to do it by an international treaty or the EU. The EU has it set to 2035. So that's what their playing and hoping it will be postponed. There are currently 5 EU countries that are pushing for extension to 2040 (Bulgaria, Romania, Italy, Portugal and Slovakia).

    The crunch time is coming, the government will have to invest massively in the energy transition. It appears that they didn't get it or got it and want to keep avoiding it until the last minute. The latter will make the situation much worse and it will cost much the taxpayer more than if the investment started now (or in the past). The Gov wants to cheapskate it and it won't work anymore - there are no cheap skates 😎

    The overall taxation (income+consumption+social taxes) is very low in the EU comparison (in average) so either taxes go up or the Gov has to borrow. The latter is not recommended with 110% debt:GNI...

    The money is needed either for direct investment or for tax exemptions for private players to make it happen. There's no cheap way out. How the Gov used to deploying cheap-easy solutions is going tackle that... I don't know.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,446 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Exactly right. It's actually not that difficult.

    And if VAT exemption was added into the mix in the initial phase you'd see EV deliveries skyrocketing. The supply exists if there's a demand. The demand here is not as high as people think. It's about 4 times higher in Norway and the EVs are delivered. It's not that there's some massive demand here... Yes the supply is constrained and delivery times long but the demand is feeble compared to more develeped EV markets.

    Part of the problem, I suspect, is RHD and being de facto an extension of the UK market whilst being a EU market.

    If we had people queuing 3 times more due to conducive policies the supply would adjust and deliver.



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,397 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    @McGiver - "Not going to happen"

    I'd say it will. We'll have 7 years, that's a long time. Let's see how it works for the countries that are banning ICE in the next few years. Of course you got to nudge it a bit. Keep increasing purchase taxes of ICE cars. In Norway almost everybody now buys BEV vehicles only. ICE are too expensive to buy, tax and own, if you buy one now it is financial suicide because of huge depreciation they will have. Everybody knows it over there.


    The game is over.




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,405 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    Never heard of a heated driveway, not to mention a video about it. Crazy amount of snow. Video has chapters, btw.




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I've heard them mentioned. I feel like it's the most American thing ever, using two gas boilers to heat the outdoors

    Still, with that level of snow you can see why it'd be useful, imagine having to shovel all that away every couple of days for winter 😬

    It's videos like that that really make me appreciate our mild climate

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,343 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    I had some fun in the snow 2 weeks ago in Lithuania, in a little Hyundai Bayon which was a brilliant little car… and handled everything spectacularly!! (I arrived and it was -14) Even for an auto!!! And even after I beached her on the snow trying to get a washing machine as close to the front door as possible!!!




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,253 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    Genuinely curious if someone can enlighten me. I often see hybrids at my local chargers, the charging infrastructure in my area is literally 2-3 chargers in a Lidl, Tesco and SuperValu. Nothing in the village or local parks. This is a very densely populated residential area. Do PHEV owners not have chargers at home or have some sort of charging plan/discount?

    I presume they're locals as I see one or two of the same cars charging, I hope nobody is coming off the motorway to top up a PHEV for a longer trip. Considering public charging is very expensive, why not use petrol/hybrid to get home and charge there? PHEV owners seem to like driving everywhere in EV mode so surely charging at home every night makes sense. It must be free for them?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,913 ✭✭✭GTE


    First off, PHEV topups during a longer journey doesn't really matter for me. In my experience, my VW GTE only starts to benefit from a sit down meals worth of time at a motorway stop (the longer the journey, the less they matter). They charge too slowly.

    Last February, Dublin to Dingle with two people and luggage was 5.5 l/100km with a full charge to begin with and what turned out to be a worthless short charge at the Obama plaza. I'd never plan a long trip around midway charges, as that misses the point of a PHEV for me (which is biased towards 4-50km commutes).

    Secondly, it reads like you're basing PHEV owners on the sample size of 2ish which isn't a great number to assume from. I'd can only add my own experience that I wouldn't mind public charging near my place of work. In this weather, I'm getting 30 of my 45km commute on EV, so a top up where I can before my return journey is welcome. I've not done the maths on price per km on petrol vs public charging.

    I had a C350e before that and I'd need to charge that wherever I possibly could due to the smaller battery. If I wanted to, I'd need 3hrs at a public charger to get me most of the way home on that. With the VW, I've better ev range so charging at work matters less.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,970 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    I was watching a charging video of the BMW IX1, they have a menu option to start battery heating manually. I really wish more cars came with this for the power users.





  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭Fitz II


    Most EV you stick it in sports mode and drive fast, much more fun than pressing a button.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    True, but you don't always get the chance for a long motorway run before charging, you have to work with that you've got

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    Do most not have battery cooling to undo all your hard work?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭Fitz II


    THe battery will discharge and charge most efficiently at the same temperature, sport mode will allow the car to get to the ideal temperature for most cars for sporty driving which is usually the same as the ideal charging temperature.

    If your talking a charger that high enough power to be worth preheating for (something over 150kw) most are mid journey no? If not plan your charging better....assume you are starting from a good state of charge on any trip and if its a return charge on the inbound if the charger is close to the turnaround point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Well you don't always get to pick and choose the ideal location for a charging stop

    For example last week I did Dublin to Belfast and back again the next day. Arrived with slightly more than 50% so I had a few options:


    Wing it, and arrive home with maybe 4% if I'm lucky

    Try to find an AC charger overnight in central Belfast, a city well known for having cars left on chargers for days at a time


    Go for Ionity on the way back, probably ideal to get max charging speeds, but only two chargers so there's a risk of waiting


    Roll the dice on an Ecars charger being working and available (and buy a lottery ticket if there was because it would have been my lucky day)

    Top up at Maxol Kinnegar, slower because cold battery and high SoC but 6 chargers makes for low risk of a long queue


    In the end I went for the last option, wasn't ideal conditions but I was only plugged in for 10-15 mins (would have been shorter but an emergency bathroom break was needed). There was no queues at all and I had one of the 150kW all to myself, although I was only pulling around 60kW so wouldn't have mattered if another car plugged in

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,397 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭Fitz II


    Yeah but how would a preheating button have changed the situation, if you have time to preheat with a button, you have time to to preheat by driving it harder, takes just as much time. If you have a battery temp reading on your car you can test that for yourself.

    THats a terrible things to say to anyone 😁



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,970 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Unfortunately I use my car on Irish roads that have speed limits, a button would be a much easier solution.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    My point was more that you might not be able to do 15-30 mins of hard driving, particularly across central Belfast


    I could try it but I imagine the PSNI might have a few things to say 🤣

    So being able to just manually preheat the battery would be handy sometimes

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,970 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Apparently the engineering challenge of adding a button is seen as insurmountable by some.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Sure the preheating wouldn't make any difference then, you'd be hitting Castlebellingham at too high a SoC to get full power 😝

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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