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UK will finally off shore illegal asylum seekers crossing the channel

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    I havent proposed anything. I just wished that thered be a change from the current mess. Maybe you think its grand as is. But its clearly not.

    The metrics involved may make controlling the north coast a win-win for France. Thered sure be a lot fewer illegals and unknowns moving around and camping in the coastal areas. Never good to have profressional people smugglers in your town. They tend not to be nice people.

    I hope the situation will change. Even if you dont.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,459 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Under what law is it a criminal offence to leave a country? France is in the Schengen Zone and doesn't even operate border or passport controls with Belgium, NL, Luxembourg , Germany, Spain etc. How would they be arresting anyone leaving by boat from the north coast?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    No it hasn’t, and they haven’t either -

    Key findings and recommendations

    1. The ‘Australian model’ of offshore processing has been a policy failure. It has not achieved any of its stated policy objectives, namely to deter irregular maritime migration, ‘save lives at sea’ and ‘break the business model’ of people smuggling networks. It has incurred enormous financial costs for Australian taxpayers, been implemented contrary to fundamental rules of international law, triggered numerous legal challenges, and involved systemic cruelty.

    2. Australia should immediately bring offshore processing to a formal end. The small number of people still held offshore should be transferred back to Australia, and everyone who has been subject to the policy since 2012 should be settled in Australia (or another appropriate country, provided the humanitarian solution is voluntary). The legislative and administrative arrangements underpinning the policy should be repealed or terminated.

    3. The ‘Australian model’ of offshore processing should never be repeated by future Australian governments, nor should it be replicated by other countries.

    https://www.kaldorcentre.unsw.edu.au/sites/kaldorcentre.unsw.edu.au/files/Policy_Brief_11_Offshore_Processing.pdf



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,049 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    they can just send them the way of a failed state which refuses to govern itself, meaning they have to spend no money and said failed state will throw money at them to pretend to deal with the issue.

    an issue that could be solved by the uk growing up and governing itself and employing sufficient staff to enforce the border, not to mention opening up legal and safe routes from countries where refugees are coming from.

    the french are playing an absolute blinder here, they couldn't wish for a better situation.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Try leaving the US via the waters of San Diego naval base. Or try leaving Scotland via Faslane.

    Same principal, any country can declare this bit here and that bit there off limits, as with ecological preservation areas or govt restricted sites, military exercises or certain types of commercial exploration. No access, back you go.

    And intl law doesnt come into it. As you can still leave, right over there at the border post.

    If youre leaving a country and are intercepted without a passport theyre going to bring you back anyway. For all they know youre on the run. (Mutual travel areas, like schengen, may be excepted, obviously)

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,440 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    So ban all people from all of Northern French beaches? That will go down well.

    Its a farcical idea, even as a fantasy.

    The amount of resources that people are so desperate to be spent on this is out of all proportion to the scale of the issue by orders of magnitude. Its absurd.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,592 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    Permits? And who exactly will be applying for these?

    Are you aware of the size of the northern coast of France?



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Really? I can think of a better situation. And that would be no illegal migrants hanging around Calais, camping homeless here and there, ripping open trucks and jumping inside. Ive seen spokespeople for the relevant areas on the news saying the same. I dont think they really view the current mess as someone having played a blinder.

    But yes, France is secondary to all this anyway. Its a 'UK-Immigrant' issue primarily. It just spills over into France, unfortunately.

    Hopefully the prospect of being sufficiently cared for in Rwanda, rather than finishing their welfare shopping trip in London, will change things. Youll be safe and sound in Rwanda. Just like you could have been safe and sound in any of the many places you passed by en route for some non-financial reason.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Peruvian coconut farmers.

    No im not aware of the size of the northern coast of France.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Better fantasy than anything you can come up with.

    Just let them all in maaaan. Peace and love.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,440 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    You are aware that the court ruling so far basically eviscerates the ability of the government to quickly shift people off to Rwanda? It will be no quicker than a normal asylum claim process in the UK

    This before the ECHR rules.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Oh.

    So you mean theyre still going to try crossing the icy waters of the channel at night in dinghies?

    Well thank god for that.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,440 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Probably.

    It's a shame the UK won't provide a means to investigate asylum claims within France or via legal entry to the UK.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,049 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    the racist rwanda policy (rwanda not being a safe country anyway) will change sweet FA thankfully.

    it will just be the BNP/national front/UKIP light brigade pissing away money for the rwandans just to release the migrants on arrival to go elsewhere.

    nothing will change, the boat crossings will remain at the same number or increase and people in the UK will get poorer and poorer while the rats running the place take as much of the money as they can and sifen it away for themselves.

    by the way one can apply for assylum in any country, they don't have to apply for it in the first safe one as claimed.

    and more migrants work then are on wellfare, more natives are on wellfare then migrants, all because a wealthy country refuses to grow up and govern itself.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    These dinghy immigrants dont seem to care much for laws anyway so why bother.

    - Your claim has been rejected.

    Oh well, taxi to the beach pls.

    ......Or.....

    - Your claim has been rejected.

    Oh well. I respect the laws of countries and their right to refuse entry.


    Which do you think theyll go for.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,440 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    These dinghy immigrants dont seem to care much for laws anyway so why bother.

    They have literally no legal way of getting to or claiming asylum in the UK. If their claim was rejected while in France they would be foolish to make the dangerous trip. Those that do make have no other choice and are - to the order of about 70% - found to be legitimate refugees.

    The UK does not even handle a particularly large number of refugees, but they are doing everything in their power to make it zero out of little more than vindictiveness.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Its sounding dangerously like you have some kind of idea in mind of what should be done.


    I never said anything about asylum claims in first countries. Nor employment, which isnt the only important factor in immigration by a long shot.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    What the UK have done, i.e. very little, for their iraqi and afghan allies is definitely the most shameful part of their immigration policy. I cant see how they dont go out of their way to assist the immigration of those who risked ther lines to support uk soldiers.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,049 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    i put forward the methods that grown up countries use to manage immigration and refugees.

    countries that govern themselves and take responsibility or some responsibility for their issues unlike the UK.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,459 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Refugees are not "on the run". Any time they are intercepted by French authorities, they are intercepted merely for their own safety. as the authorities fear the boat might capsize crossing the Channel. They haven't actually broken any law by trying to leave French jurisdiction.

    This is more about you trying to infer that refugees and asylum seekers are criminals.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    "They have literally no legal way of getting to or claiming asylum in the UK"

    So what. Tough shyte. You dont always get what you want.

    They can apply legally through the UKs immigration authorities, as can anyone.

    If you cant get UK try somewhere closer to home. Plenty of other countries to choose from. Typically the neighboring ones you already turned down. And its also cheaper to rehome immigrants in similar cultures.

    Choosing beggars.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    I didnt say they were on the run. I said a given person leaving a country without a passport may well be suspected by authorities of being on the run.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I think the UK have a moral responsibility to take in a certain amount of immigrants as they have in the past 20 years created a lot of situations of immigrants fleeing from unstable countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Do those methods include just accepting any old geezer who lands on your beach with no documents.

    Cause thats a dumb thing to do.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,459 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    They are not ordinary people engaging in ordinary travel between two countries for work or leisure purposes. They are asylum seekers seeking shelter in another country, perhaps quite a few of them without passports, some without any ID at all - normal rules covering travel simply don't apply in these circumstances.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Maybe so.

    But they also have a moral responsibility to citizens of their country to know who they are letting in. To allow dangerous individuals in is to endanger the people.

    To passively allow a system which brings unknown people in is to endanger the population through lack of care.

    It will be interesting if/when a victim of a dangerous illegal immigrant goes on to sue the govt.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Never said that either.

    Anyway, ive been kicking more ass than bruce lee here. Its getting tiring, battered henchmen lying all around me.

    Think its time for my hammock.

    Hope you kids learned your lesson today.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Maybe so? Definitely so. People would have more sympathy for the uks plight if they allowed legal routes for asylum seekers. I have way more stmpathy for italy who has been involved in very few wars but takes in way more asylum applicants and illegal immigrants than the uk not helped by the uk causimg so much instability around the Mediterranean shores of libya and syria. The rwanda plan will only work if they ship immigrants to there in the thousands otherwise the immigrants will still be willing to take their chances.



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