Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

You're conflating two separate issues here - I suspect deliberately. Brexit's impact on GDP is a cost to the economy — the UK's GDP each year is 5.5% less than it would be if it had not Brexited. Paying nurses is a cost to the government, but not to the economy. Brexit destroys wealth, but no wealth is destroyed when wages are paid.

The reason I suspect you may be doing this deliberately is that you perpetrate a similar gross, hard-to-miss misreading of the BCC survey. The survey found that. . .

"More than half (56%) of the BCC members surveyed who trade with the EU said they had experienced problems complying with new rules for exporting goods, while 45% reported issues trading in services."

You translate this into "in other words 44% of exporters aren't all that bothered about Brexit". But to arrive at that conclusion you have to assume that the 45% who reported issues trading in services are drawn entirely from the 56% who had problems exporting goods. The report doesn't say that, and a moment's thought would suggest that it's wildly unlikely to be true. Although not mentioned in the Guardian report, 44% of exporters also reported difficulties obtaining visas for staff and, there again, there's unlikely to be a 100% overlap with those reporting other problems.

The true figure for unbothered exporters is somewhere between 44% and 0%.

This is of course correct, but my main point is that salonfire is comparing apples and oranges here. The impact of Brexit on GDP is a measure of its effect on the national economy. The impact of pay rises for public sector workers is a measure of the effect on government finances. These are very, very different things.

The obvious benefits of paying nurses, transport workers etc more don't mainly accrue to government finances (though they partly do - higher income tax and national insurance contributions, lower claims for universal credit and other in-work benefits). So, yeah, paying nurses more does, all other things being equal, make government finances worse. But it doesn't necessarily make the national economy worse — for the reasons you point out, it may make it better. And it certainly doesn't make it worse by the amount of extra pay given to nurses and transport workers, since that amount remains in the national economy and continues to circulate.

Why would we have a multi page thread about striking workers in the UK NHS? We aren't impacted by it. I am sure we all have our opinions about it but seeing as its not really related to Brexit or an issue with the HSE, I don't expect us to have a lot to say about it. I will just say this, the NHS is collapsing. I listened to a call where a caller kept calling 999 for his mother who couldn't breathe. They couldn't send an ambulance as she was being heard complaining that she was dying in the background. They would only send an ambulance if she was not breathing. The person died in the house. This was before the strikes currently under way, so lets not pretend that everything was going well before workers asked for more money.

The only way these issues are related is the party responsible for this is the same party that brought you Brexit. Seeing as both of these are absolute disasters at the moment, it is a wonder the Tories aren't polling at 10% yet somehow they are on 26% or so. Shows you how entrenched people are in the UK. No matter how bad it is going, they will not look for change because it will mean the other side wins. But that is a discussion for another thread, not Brexit.

And don't forget he "hates Brexit by the way"

When we did try to talk about the unprecedented nurses strikes and practical national shutdown currently happening we just got whataboutery regarding Ireland and the good old attempting to shame Irish people for having the cheek to be interested.

The problem with Brexit for the UK population is that there are NO benefits whatsoever for the average citizen....zilch, nada, nothing. Everything they were sold by Vote Leave and the right wing tabloids was a lie. There was no payoff for their Leave vote whatsoever, their lives failed to improve in any way since 2016.

I only vaguely recall, but one thing I do know, is that in 2016, UK built cars numbered 1,750,000.

This year......786,000.

So I’m not sure if this has been raised but the Euronext boss has confirmed that Brexit has cause irreparable harm to UK and especially London financial services. We are no clearer in financial services deal that would fix this and it looks unlikely in the short to medium term that this will happen.

But the UK are coming up with a solution. They are going to draft financial services legislation that removes all of the governance, prudential and liquidity requirements brought in the aftermath I’d the 2008 crash. So turning back the clock to the good old days and they think is a win for their customers. Fcuck that.

I don’t think there can be an agreement with the EU as the UK from the very beginning refused to entertain the possibility of becoming a third country similar to Switzerland. I remember when I was tasked prior to the vote to give worst and neutral based scenarios to London headquarters investment firms and everyone agreed that if the self destruct brexir button was pushed the least they would do is become a third country.

But back to your point I don’t think there for the EU to give allowances. It’s a win if UK firms had to locate to Paris Frankfurt or Dublin. They need EU distribution and that can’t happen from London. The extension after extension has come to an end and the firms have to make a decision. I agree that the firms could put pressure but they would have done it by now if they are going to. Also if they have to HQ in EU then purely from a cost they would have to exit London. I think I raised this on this thread a couple of years ago but no one could honestly believe the appalling vista. The NI protocol is pretty irrelevant as a bargain8ng tool. But I could be wrong.

In that interview with Reese-Mogg, the wine merchant confronts him about that NHS bus, (maybe was someone else in the audience) and he said "The NHS is getting that money."

But, it's Rees-Mogg. Opens the mouth, lies come out.