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Why inheritance is the dirty secret of the middle classes – harder to talk about than sex

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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Paying VAT on a pair of jocks in Penneys from my net PAYE income is double jeopardy by the same logic. Should we get rid of VAT as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,903 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    No we shouldn't get rid of VAT it's a tax on a commercial transaction.

    It's essential to tax commercial transactions to raise revenue to run the country.

    Inheritance tax is paid when one person dies and the other person loses a relation.

    Hardly comparable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,026 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    ^ what he said.

    I don't agree with the idea of VAT either and in fact it was only created 100 years ago and introduced to Ireland 50 years ago.

    But it does make up 17% of Exchequer income, so not an easy thing to unwind. But if it were up to me l, I would unwind it, over 10 or 15 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,636 ✭✭✭dotsman


    Em, that's not true. At a minimum, CGT will have been paid on everything bar the family home.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    So the double jeopardy thing was BS all along then



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭John Doe1


    Almost every 'progressive' Irish person I have met comes from an upper middle class background and loves to talk about male privilege/white privilege/CIS privilege without ever acknowledging their extreme privilege which they have had all throughout their lives. It seems that they need to leach off others supposed oppression so that people will ignore their privilege.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,488 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Leach?

    How are they leaching off others supposed oppression?



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,141 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Perhaps what is overlooked is we all inherit something that sets us up better than the vast majority of the World's population. That is our nationality and in the case of Ireland (in my case the UK) that bestows value well in excess of what people in Africa, India, China and the like can expect. It provides a welfare state and infrastructure that provides us with all the basics, and the opportunity to live fulfilling lives. And the tax we pay throughout our lives helps provide and sustain comforts we all enjoy



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,364 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Bit of a jump there in terms of upper middle class needing to leech off others' supposed oprression - sounds like you came to the conclusion before doing the research.

    That said, wealth or legacy IS a privilege on the basis that it's an advange you have without being aware of it. Just look at FF (and probably FG and others to be fair) in the 80s 90s and 00s to see how much easier it was to become a TD when one of your parents was already elected.

    There was a show on Netflix called Dear White People which toyed around with the idea of race v legacy as the more benefetical privilege by putting a black student in an ivy league college where his father was the Dean.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,383 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    No CGT on death.

    Any possible CGT on assets falls away on the death of the owner.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭Sono Topolino



    Presumably he meant CAT.

    My specific problem could have been resolved if the rules for Dwelling House Relief hadn't been tightened to the point that you have to live with your parents continuously for 3 years prior to the date of inheritance. I had the misfortune of studying abroad at the wrong time and thus lost out on the relief. In my opinion, the relief should apply as long as don't own another dwelling house and live in it for a reasonable amount of time after the date of inheritance. If you are rich enough to afford another house, they you don't need the relief and you should be taxed. The proceeds of the tax should be used for housing supports.

    Again, I have no objection to paying tax. However, the current policy does not support home ownership. Currently the threshold of €335k, which Sinn Féin wants to reduce to €300k, does not allow you to inherit a house tax free in Dublin. Rents in Dublin are also insanely high cutting into people's ability to save, meaning that for most people their best (if not only) chance to own a house in Dublin is to inherit it.

    I know some people who live with their parents in much larger houses than I could ever afford. Said houses are basically split into two large apartments because their parents are rich enough to own a house two families can comfortably live within without encroaching on each other. They will get the benefit of dwelling house relief, while those who cannot stand to live within the same home as their parents (or who have parents who are abusive) lose out. This is arbitrary and unfair.

    Irish government policy should be to house the needy, not to remove homes from people who have them. That is all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,033 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    Those people with good genes should be hobbled to put them on a par with those less fortunate 😜



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,431 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Your story seems like an exceptional edge case. I don't think they can build rules around those kinds of cases although there should be some sort of appeals mechanism.

    Were you back living in the family home for long at the time you inherited the house?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭cuttingtimber22


    33% is a fairly hefty tax after the tax free amount. Perhaps a smaller tax free amount say 100k and 20% above that would be more proportionate or to have a dual rate of tax free up to 100k, 20% to 1m and 40% above 1m mirroring the PIT system.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,328 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    With capital acquisition tax too there seemingly is no way around it….

    unless the parents get a good safe and in their twilight years siphon money out of their account and store cash at home….

    I doubt the government could say… “hey, in 2017, Mr and Mrs O’Leary had 80,000”. “Only 30,000 left in bank accounts, now, what gives ?”

    a little too big brother to be going around at that lark and looking for receipts for that disparity..

    “ gave it away “…. They would be under no obligation to prove otherwise, state can’t track it down and it shall have been ‘given away’ anyway, to next of kin.



  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    As much as I know I'm incredibly lucky on a global scale, my worst character trait is how I feel about wealth and inheritance. I am actually ashamed of how I feel about it.

    Pretty much everyone I am close to comes from a wealthy family and gets helped regularly. The ease at which they receive help is incredible to watch. 7k on a custom engagement ring? "Oh mum will give me the money for that". Back to uni? "The parents are helping me out." A house? "Parents helped with the deposit." Cousins sitting on so much land and housing, it's galling. Not a care in the world financially because they have help all along and then a lifetime of savings in inheritance waiting so they don't even have to think about the future.

    Meanwhile, my mum is thinking about selling the house to my richest brother for an eighth of its market rate "so it stays in the family".



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