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Staff Shortages in Ireland.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,142 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    whatever it is, it's not doing the teaching shortage any favours.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    While I realise that the UK is a different jurisdiction, am I wrong in thinking that a court delivered a decision recently to the effect that jobs of this type are not in fact self-employment?

    If I am right here, it is most likely that the Irish courts will follow that judgement as we also have a common law system, and our judges usually admit UK precedents.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Nursing in Ireland was always about status. Going back a while, a girl who went into nursing was expected to stay a few years, and then leave when she got married. It was seen as a suitable job until marriage, and gave a girl a good training that she could use while bringing up her children.

    Now that people are expected to remain on the job, it has become too onerous for the nice middle class women, so they have to a large extent been replaced by a lower breed on the shop floor, so to speak. They are now overseers. I have heard various nurse friends of the older variety speak scathingly of modern nurses.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Going back a while? Going back to the 50s or 60s maybe? The civil service marriage ban was dropped in the early 70s. There have always been lots of married / partnered female nurses in my lifetime. There's not much point in putting people through three or four years training for a working life of five or ten years.

    The move to relying on more care assistants on the shop floor has been driven by the accountants and budget holders, not by nurses. There's a fair degree of sense in that approach. You don't need four years training to give a bed bath or help someone with their food.



  • Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭purifol0


    Ah yes but the teaching council and unions are quite happy that there is a shortage. It means their members have even more leverage despite the fact that Irish teachers professional standards continue to fall.


    Taking in hundreds of thousands if refugees over the last few years, at the behest of the EU and their lickspittles in our govts and the NGO's on the make, who are nearly all single women with children has meant too few "qualified" teachers in Dublin.


    Of course if the state had any balls it would deploy teachers to school where they are needed much like how the Gardai are deployed. Of course unions would vote out any politician that dared so...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Even for the good paid IT jobs Ireland isn't that attractive. I moved to Germany and part of the reason was I hated my apt. If I moved or my landlord kicked me out I would have been looking at paying a ridiculous amount for a 1 bed in Dublin. For the price of the 1 bed I was renting in Kildare, I'm no renting a nearly 100 m2 apartment in the center of a big German city. I had a good IT job in Ireland and I'm earning more in Germany. From a financial point of view, I can't see why anyone would want to stay in Ireland.


    Editing to add: I should say anyone who didn't buy property when the prices were better. If I was paying the same rent in Ireland as Germany, I'd be fine.

    Post edited by Grayson on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,036 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Well this is it, from a financial point of view it never made sense. I am a potentially a digital nomad since 2017 but I prefer to stay in one place, the place I would most like to stay is Ireland where my family and old group of friends are and the country/society I love the most but it makes absolutely no financial sense. I wouldn't live in an extreme low tax Haven either because I want a life, so I am in the states which for me is a good compromise between lower tax/cost of living and quality of life.

    Ideally I'd move home once I establish financial independence but of course they don't make it easy. I don't think my retirement tax sheltered account would transfer too easily or my social security that I've paid into for years. I would be penalized by 100s of thousands. My wife is a surgeon in the us. She would take a pay cut to work in Ireland, a country with a massive shortage in doctors and surgeons. I think it would take at least six months in new board exams and recertification and after that she would go from an independent attending surgeon in the us to a supervised registrar is my guess in Ireland because the consultant positions are like gold dust apparently despite there being a chronic shortage. I don't get it, it's just bureaucratic barriers everywhere and high taxation and high cost of living.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    There is a while load of absolute horsesh*t in this.

    Managed to somehow blame it on all the foreigners though. Well done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,989 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    I'm ok because I bought property at the right time not because I've a particularly amazing salary in IT. The second tier companies don't pay what FAANG pay and also don't expect the same commitment.

    But I've no idea what my kids will do or where they will live apart from with me.

    Maybe I'll retire somewhere cheap and leave them the house. 😜



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Don't know anything about the recertification process, but she can set herself up as a private consultant here without waiting for any posts. She'll need an office, a clinic and a PA presumably, but that's the nature of the business.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭purifol0


    Lol I'm afraid this mess is very much a homegrown affair.

    Consider improving your reading comprehension skills.

    Post edited by purifol0 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭BaywatchHQ


    It can be hard for modern young men to have the motivation to go after a career as there is less chance of having a normal family nowadays with wife and children. Women don't rely on men now like they did in the past so there are less stable relationships and more divorces. Women have their own careers now which has caused a surplus of men who aren't needed.

    What is the point of working for years to build a career when you are just going to be sitting alone at 50? Society is at an interesting stage at the moment, we have seen the rise of male suicides which is a sign of the changing times.



  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭Deiselurker


    Ireland's economy and population has grown too fast over past 20 years or so leading to increasing demand on services and more choice for employees. Why bother working in a physically or mentally demanding job when you can get a well paid role working for the likes of a tech company or other multinational?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭rock22


    According to their website, 6 of 37 members of the council ae nominated by unions. So not controlled in any way by unions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,755 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    22 of the 37 Council members are teachers either elected or selected. Those elected are nearly all union reps current or former.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Looks like teachers see the value of organising



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    Yeah and a good example of them providing a fcuking awful service where those trying to register as teachers don't know if their degree meets the requirements or not. Thus leading to a shortage of new teachers.

    Who'd have thought a group of union members would devise a racket to keep themselves plum at the expense of the service and kids they are supposed to be educating.

    Oh an by the way, teacher salaries in Dublin are dog-**** compared to the non-union tech roles. Explain to me how that is value for Dublin teachers genius? You really do struggle with basic logic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Are you having trouble understanding the difference between the Teaching Council, a public body implementing Government policy under specific legislation, and teachers?

    Are you having trouble understanding the entirely different professions have different income levels?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,036 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Wait, you think that jobs at multinationals aren't mentally demanding?

    If anything the work culture now is far more demanding than previous decades.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,755 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Teachers run the Teaching Council, so what is the difference?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭Deiselurker


    I agree, some are but others involve endless meetings, zoom calls and delegating work to someone else. Compare this to jobs that are now seeing shortages like nurses, social workers, teachers and guards which would be more stressful.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,038 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Hello the 1950s wants you back.

    Nurses have become less hands on for sure. Empathy for people which used to be a common trait in people who took up nursing seems to be less common. It's become a career not a vocation. Same is true of doctors. You meet so many with no bedside manner at all. I thought they changed how they do the interview and such to try correct that.

    All that said I think working in the any of these jobs is tough gig. A lot I knew working in health including doctors have left it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,038 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Stress in both tbh. I think sitting at desk all day is worse for your physical health though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭Unsupervised


    I see a lot of HSE analyst roles. I might apply and see where it goes. Already in a full time analyst role in the private sector



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Housing is too expensive and people simply are not paid enough.

    People talking about "generous social welfare" are full of it. If a business can't pay a living wage, then it is not a viable business. I am sick of having to subsidize businesses with corporate welfare, who refuse to pay a living wage.

    We also need to bring down housing costs, be if rent or buying. Otherwise we will continue to see people emigrate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,603 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    There is a weird prestige factor here with getting a "university" degree, your kidding nobody with your diploma from an IT, lol.

    It really is a waste of state resources for requiring people to spend four years in college to get a qualification that could be done as an apprenticeship.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,038 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I look at jobs ads with these massive requirements but meh salaries it's no wonder they can't find people.

    Govt it's doing nothing about housing. Other than make it worse.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    Company I worked for a few years back the contract hours were 40.

    8 to 5

    Lads were regularly not getting home until 8 or 9 at night. Getting called to work odd Saturday or Sundays too and getting no extra for it.

    Do late nights or few hours at the weekend? Same 40 hours pay.

    Salary was low 30s too

    Some lads left quickly while others are there years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,038 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    A good IT degree is much higher level L8 than an apprenticeship L6. It's a very different thing. No doubt there are excellent and mediocre people in both.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,038 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I think you do those extra hours getting started. But eventually you have enough of it. I remember parting ways with a company because they just wanted people in late and every weekend. They were in complete denial about the hours people were working. It's also was causing people to make mistakes causing even more problems. But they didn't want to listen.



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