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The lets make alooo(o)f regret it in his first week Munster v Leinster Build up Thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,316 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Thought Munster's midfield wasn't up to much even when their pack were giving good ball to work with. Carbery isn't a good 10 and Crowley isn't a good 12. Frisch tried hard, but as the game wore on and Munster lost the lead he got sloppy and tried things that weren't really on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,162 ✭✭✭letowski


    Disappointing result for Munster but a decent effort. I wonder if Casey had started, might the result have been different, we’re so much better in attack with him. Munster are a work in progress in attack but are improving. I like that Munster have an ambition to run kicks back, but I would prefer more coordination in how they do it. Daly toward the end went running off on his own away from support was a costly penalty.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,631 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Its funny how some refs are really strict on some things and others take no notice of the same.

    Im fairly sure the leinster lineout lifters went in front of the jumper nearly everytime they set a maul, and it was never pinged, i think wayne barnes is a stickler for that.

    All 4 SH’s fed the scrum crooked, which used to be a problem for some refs

    If an average punter can pick up on those things then teams analysis departments must have a file on every refs do’s and donts.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    When you’re behind on the scoreboard and against the clock there comes a time when you have to force it.

    Still thought Frisch, especially in the first half, was the best of our 3/4 line.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,437 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    Casey is def improving. I didn't buy into the hype when he "burst" onto the scene. He was tenacious and had a fighting attitude that fans like in a small SH. But he didn't have the skills to match.

    His decision making and kicking have improved. But I don't think he's knocked Murray off the no.9 red shirt, yet. He will though - unless something drastic happens to his/Murray's career trajectories.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭bingobango12


    Standard enough stuff down there. Loads of “phassun” about 2 games a season and that’s about it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    I really like Penney as a player he has that bit of dog about him, in a similar way that Connors has and Hodnett too. Both teams will be delighted with them but you get the impression they'll never get the International recognition they might have got in years gone by.


    McCarthy had a good game but he gives away some stupid penalties. The one at the ruck he was penalised for he could have been pinged for any number of offences at that one ruck.


    Another poor game from Baird I thought, his stock has really dropped.

    Cases and Murray were night and day. Murray wasn't helped by Carbery or Crowley never taking it to the line but Casey's passing was making them do that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,638 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    You should be banned for blasphemy. Alooooof? Where you at?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,336 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    Stephens Day is usually a tourist crowd more than a usual rugby crowd anyways . All the Christmas present crew.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,711 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Something drastic has already happened to Murray’s career trajectory. The World Cup seems a long way away for him. Healy too.



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  • Subscribers Posts: 41,915 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Similarly Busby didn't call any changing binds at maul time, and never once told a player on the wrong side to get out. When you have a defending player literally pulling attacking players out of the maul from the attacking side you know you're doing it wrong.

    He was consistently average for both sides.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I wonder if Casey had started, might the result have been different, we’re so much better in attack with him.

    Was about to post the exact same thing. Really want to see him start v Northampton now, he’s earned it.

    I like that Munster have an ambition to run kicks back, but I would prefer more coordination in how they do it. Daly toward the end went running off on his own away from support was a costly penalty.

    I think we really missed Haley at FB in this regard tbh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 734 ✭✭✭durthacht


    Why do you think Carbery has developed into an average 10? Is it the injuries, or playing in a team that has struggled to win trophies, or the coaching, or did he not have the ability to play 10?

    He seems to be trying to play on the gain line a little more which is good.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,437 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    I think Healy is further from a WC than Murray.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,638 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Ben or Cian? Lol. Cian Healy should not be anywhere close to the team. He's spent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Neither should be in France unless they book their own flights.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,969 ✭✭✭connachta


    Not unhappy poor-gamestyle Munster are tricked by their own tactics

    + Leinster are now overfed with wins, they will slow down this weekend (one Connacht fan can hope^^)



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,276 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    He must be from one of those sub Saharan areas where they carry the bread baskets on their heads.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    To quote a certain political party…

    A lot done. More to do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    It's a career training with Toner at first receiver



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,437 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    Fair point. Some of the Leinster crowds can be similar.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Phassun.

    Fashion.

    It’s only Dunnes but thanks for the compliment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 942 ✭✭✭mun1


    awful performance from munster during the sin bin, we should not be losing to that leinster selection at home.

    Poor performance and decision making at key moments was the difference. Relying on turnovers too much

    not sure why Barron & Casey didn’t start.

    for all the fancy footwork in the back line, still no cutting edge when in the red zone. Created a few chances , just couldnt execute .

    Well done on the win leinster.

    Right , I’m off before the trolls roll in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    I'm selling all my Baird as a lock stock but I'm still buying stock in Baird as a 6.

    He is probably 5th choice as a lock and either first or second choice at 6 depending on the team we are facing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,316 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Thought Baird went well enough at second row. He isn't an edge monster like Ryan or Jenkins are but he tried getting stuck in. Joe McCarthy was the physically dominant lock in that partnership tonight.

    Baird has impressed at blind side flanker this season though and I think that's his position going forward.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,316 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Mentioned on the Leinster thread about how excited I am by Jamie Osborne and Joe McCarthy. Both are just 21 years old, yet they're excelling in big games already. They have the talent to go to the very top of the game.

    McCarthy outshone a far more experienced opposition and was a monster in contact. Osborne showed so lovely football skills to unlock the Munster defence.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Which is kinda where I thought we’d be to be fair.

    I still feel we’ve seen more from Prendergast in 6 months than we’d seen from Larkham in 3 years. And overall the skills of the forwards seem better. Which is a marked improvement from where we were.

    The question mark is at 9 for me. I’ve been a defender Murray for awhile, but I think Casey deserves to start the big games ahead of him now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Heineken knockout level of intensity. Credit to Leinster Their defense is simply awesome.

    Joey makes more than 1/3 off the tee... or if Crowley finds touch late in the game... or if even one of those two tap-n-go moves had been stopped, Munster probably edge it.

    Tough lessons to learn, but those are the margins and inaccuracies you just can't afford if you want to win at this level.

    Rowntree looked absolutely shook afterwards talking to TG4. This guy gets it, this guy really cares.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    That leinster selection?

    That was a good leinster team.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,711 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    I’d say a combination of injuries, poor coaching and probably not being suited to 10 at the highest level from the get go.

    When he came through his elusive running and ability to step in at second receiver as a playmaker were his best traits. The extra space at 15 gave him the chance to pick a line or step a defender and he was good enough to either ghost through the space or pick the right pass to supporting player.

    Playing at 10 he hasn’t the time or space. He’s shipped a few injuries when he’s tried to take it to the line in the last few years. Just seems to shovel it on and doesn’t seem to be able (or confident enough at this stage) to order the players around him into attacking patterns. His defence in the front line is suspect and cost us a couple of tries over in NZ in first and second tests.

    He’s a nice footballer but not a top level 10 and unlikely to develop into one at this stage.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    14-0

    just inexcusable for that to be the losing of the game. When you hear “a bad yellow card period” you don’t expect it to be the other team with the yellow!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,631 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    All you can ask for in a game is consistency, but the league, the leagues, the hemispheres, the cup competitions and the sport has and never will have consistency, which i guess makes it more interesting and frustrating in equal parts.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Jaxon Tiny Thinker


    Nearly every Leinster team is a good team these days but look at all the players who were missing. VDF, Sexton, JGP, Doris, Furlong, Ryan would have made the team a lot stronger. The form he's in I think Doris alone would have made a huge difference.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I remember hearing a stat a few years ago that the All Blacks didn’t concede a single try during a yellow card period for an entire season.

    Really impressive, but a defensive stat which is what you expect to hear.

    14-0 against during a single yellow card period is as bad a sin bin period as I can remember tbh.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I think he’s always had the pass quality ( m he’s the best passer in Ireland for me). He’s really improved other areas in the last 6-12 months tho.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,316 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    I remember listening to a few podcasts in the build up to Leinster vs Racing and every show were in agreement that the only way to beat Leinster is to prevent them from having the ball. They're so good in possession that they when they're dialled in they just don't make silly unenforced errors.

    The yellow card seemed to galvanise the squad and they went up a level in intensity. Munster couldn't match it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,316 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    On reflection, I would have given the motm award to Ringrose. Munster tried shifting the ball wide but he read that pull back pass so well that he either forced them back inside or he made a massive hit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,914 ✭✭✭Rigor Mortis



    A few things. The argument about Carberry being Ireland's second 10 should be put to bed. Byrne has consistently outplayed him when they have played each other and did again tonight.

    Coombes is rapidly developing into a real quality player. He and Deegan deserve time with the 6n squad/

    Frisch is an interesting add for Munster, but he isnt at the stage that some of the young Leinster lads are at.

    Murray is past it. Healy's only shot is if we only have 5 props on the plane. To be fair to him, he has worked hard to add TH to his list of skills, but its a huge ask.

    Good game and seeing how Munster have lost to teams closer to Leinster thirds than seconds in recent years, this was a step up.

    Still, Ulster is a huge game for their season. Any chance of a home quarter depends on a win in Ravenhill



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Small point but the 5m tap-and-go try Leinster conceded vs the Bulls was obviously hugely costly at the time, but they seem to have learned a tonne from it.

    Conversely, Munster continue to go Scannell first phase, Coombes 2nd.

    Coombes is so good from 5m out, there’s a decent case for it, but we need more variety.

    (Incidentally, thought Coombes and POM were both very good 2nite).



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Squad size was changed to bring 9 front rows to RWC



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Who would people have ahead of Cian Healy as a LH.


    For me it's Porter and maybe Loughman. That's it. I don't understand why people say he shouldn't be on the plane.


    I do note that I'd give Loughman the bench spot ahead of Healy for the six nations. IMO Healy is only a little ahead and Loughman will benefit from getting a run in the 23.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    For what it’s worth I’d still take Carbery over Byrne at international level. It’s just not the same and I don’t think the latter has the necessary athletic ability to do it at the next level. That said he probably deserves another shot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭Bogwoppit


    I’m a bit baffled why Casey isn’t starting for Munster, it could have changed the result had he been on longer.

    Ringrose was the classiest player on the pitch again, his reading of the game is just on a different level.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I think Warwick’s form last season deserved a go.

    But I think Loughman’s handling alone could see him move ahead of Healy for Ireland, would really suit Irelands style.

    And on that point with regards the back-up 10 debate, I think that’s what goes against Ross Byrne; he just doesn’t suit our style at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭Strand1970


    Munster for a home quarter final? Surely you mean 8th place. Munster must win against ulster to have any chance of a top 8. Don't forget benatton play zebra again with another 5 points in the bag.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    That was a huge second half from Leinster. Despite being down a man for 10 mins of it, we turned the possession and territory from 37% and 51% respectively in the first half to 60% and 68% in the second. It wasn’t sexy, but we got the heads down and took control of that game in the second 40. Very happy with that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭Rockbeast2


    Fantastic game to watch...in open play...if you ignored some laws...as Busby did! LOL

    Ref was sh!te for both teams. Needs to work on his footwork. Not sure he has the spatial awareness necessary.

    * Blue-tinted glasses here.


    Not a terrible performance. Socks were pulled up in second half.

    Big Joe might just become great.

    Osbourne any day over Frisch.

    BOD was a decade ahead of his time and dragged Leinster and Ireland into the professional era but Ringrose is consistently better. * Sue me. LOL

    On to Munster...

    Even a blind man can see that Casey should be #9. And in Irish 23. Murray's finished. Casey and Patterson should be 9/21 Feck the rumours of contractually assured places.

    Great to see Coombes on rampage again. Fantastic player.

    Get Crowley to 10 ASAP. He has a great future ahead of him. Carbery's future is behind him.

    Rowntree's interview was very telling. He knows that there are lads not pulling their weight in his squad - it's the older generation IMO. Youngsters are great.

    * I like Rowntree and hope that he gets his chance to bring the youth through. And not just there to get rid of the old guard for PR purposes before ROG's return.

    Whatever, trust youth.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,914 ✭✭✭Rigor Mortis


    I think if they beat Ulster they win their next 5. Then they get to SA very much in the mix for a decent finish.



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