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So "X" - nothing to see here. Elon's in control - Part XXX **Threadbans in OP**

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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,976 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I watched Glass Onion tonight, and couldn’t stop thinking about Musk as the megalomaniac idiot who manages to destroy their whole empire with a bad bet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,948 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    A fatwah has certainly been issued against Elon Musk by "the left". Hilarious stuff altogether.

    Hopefully in a few years all this divisive rhetoric will be a thing of the past that we can look back and chuckle at.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 45,470 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger




  • Registered Users Posts: 23,638 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,475 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    What I know about the stock market couldn't fill a postage stamp, but there's definitely no broader context at play here, right? That the overall stock market has trended downwards and Tesla is just another company stuck in that slope?

    Tesla is in a weird position now because having had the market to itself for so long, it must be looking over its shoulders now. I believe supply is an issue with the electric car ATM. Again not sure how that's effecting Tesla's price.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭timetogo1


    Musk has sold 40bn worth of Tesla stock over the last year. Most of those sales were well off Teslas highs.

    Obviously there is more than one factor in Teslas stock decline (75% drop in a year). The CEO is one factor though.

    Ford & GM have dropped about 50%.

    The S&P has dropped about 25% in the same time frame.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,529 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Musk was saying it was just falling with the stock market, but it's fallen further than can be explained by stock market movements alone. As above, it's fallen twice as much as some other car makers. It was wildly overvalued anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 45,470 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    Yes, the whole stock market, particularly tech is on a downward trend this last year. However, Tesla is really tanking.


    The S&P 500 index is down 20% YTD.

    Tesla is down 72% YTD.


    The twitter debacle, tesla shares overpriced, China production issues, competition from the other big car companies, all contributing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,667 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    A big part of the drop in Tesla's stock value is that they have far more competitors in the EV market as most manufacturers are offering decent vehicles. Plus their Cybertruck was supposed to start production late 2021 for release in late 2022, but production has been pushed back and now isn't due to start until mid-2023 (meaning likely release early 2024). They're also facing numerous lawsuits regarding labour/discrimination.

    But there is a definite correlation between Musk's dealings with Twitter (negotiating to buy it, trying to get out of buying it, finally buying it) and larger-than-normal drops in Tesla stock value. Partially because of Musk selling his own stock and the likelihood he'll lose significant money on Twitter (and therefore is more likely to sell more Tesla stock or otherwise use his stock as leverage for loans/funding), but also because of the reputational damage and negative attention he's bringing to Tesla.

    So to summarise; it's all the lefties fault.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,529 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i'm certainly not expert enough (or at all) to claim that what this guy says is accurate - but an interesting read:

    from another tweet in that thread: "In Q1 of last year, Tesla's entire profit came from selling half a billion dollars of carbon credits to other carmakers. Which hey, good for them, but in reality it means driving and owning a Tesla hasn't actually reduced global emissions at all."



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,667 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Also important to note that each time Musk has sold some of his Tesla stock, he has publicly said he won't sell any more. And then he does.




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,458 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    The Tela semi has also failed to live up to expectations Musk promised it would not only replace regular trucks but would be more cost-effective than trains. As it turns out, none of that was true and Renault beat Tesla and everyone else to the market.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,998 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Also its design has been panned by actual truck drivers. It seems they didn't get any input on how to design a truck from the people who would actually be using it.

    The below thread lists all the design faults and explains pretty concisely why they are not just problems but also why they can't be easily fixed without a top to bottom cab redesign.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    The Tesla share price has been due a major price correction for years now. At one point I think it was valued more than every other major car manufacturer combined. A lot of this valuation was due to Musk and the faith people had in him. That faith has obviously been shaken.

    The valuation was built on the assumption Tesla would dominate the electric car space similar to Ford in the 1910/20s. However for all the hype about Teslas technology every other manufacturer produces electric vehicles. Tesla may still produce better vehicles than the competition but the competition only needs to produce vehicles that are good enough. Tesla is not going to out produce and undercut the competition similar to what Ford did a hundred years ago even under optimistic scenarios.

    On top of that to make the advances Teslas historic valuation demands you need the best people you can get. Musks very public firing of staff is going to put those people off joining Tesla/increase the price Tesla needs to pay the staff. Those staff will go to competitor's instead. The Twitter thread about the Tesla truck seems to mirror Musks approach to Twitter itself ie ignore people who understand the industry.

    Musks antics at Twitter has brought forward the correction of Teslas share price but at the same time Tesla always had a share price that was difficult to justify based on what they did.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,458 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    The Twitter thread about the Tesla truck seems to mirror Musks approach to Twitter itself ie ignore people who understand the industry.

    Musk did famously say that he knew more about manufacturing than anyone else alive on Earth. No chance he's going to take advice from a mere engineer with actual engineering qualifications.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The trouble with Tesla is they aren't better than any other EV on the market and the gap on battery / charging technologies closed quite rapidly in the last few years. They're certainly full of gimmicky touch screen and self drive nonsense, but they leave a lot to be desired in quality control and parts availability and all of that. They utterly toasted their reputation in Norway, which was for a time their biggest market, by leaving customers without spare parts.

    Tesla to me just look like classic tech bubble hype and they're in a sector that's about tight margins and manufacturing efficiency and also style and branding.

    That's the other aspect of Tesla I think is unimpressive btw. They aren't head turning at all. They look like some random bland Kia or Hyundai. Other than you're aware that they're a high tech EV, they're just a bit 'meh' looking.

    Then to top it all off they're appealing to a market which is driven largely by customers who are quite ethical in their choices of car. They have to at least have some kind of environmental world view in most cases to switch over to EVs. However, their CEO is highly political and is saying all the kinds of things that would scare those people away.

    He's trashing the brand and he doesn't even seem to understand that. You won't get MAGA, climate change denying, petrol heads on Twitter to buy EVs. So that's a completely lost cause, and in the meantime he's alienating the core market for Tesla. It makes absolutely no sense!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,475 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    That's the other aspect of Tesla I think is unimpressive btw. They aren't head turning at all. They look like some random bland Kia or Hyundai. Other than you're aware that they're a high tech EV, they're just a bit 'meh' looking.

    In defence of Tesla, I'd argue their relative mediocre look was the point. Easy to forget just how godawful electric cars looked prior to the Tesla came along. The few I'd have seen looked exactly like the ugly concept cars they kinda were

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well, the technology has also matured. It's been driven by quite a few companies and I think we're headed to a point now where EVs are just going to be run of the mill. Just like when everyone was going on about hybrids when Toyota began really pushing the Prius in a big way back in about 2004, within 10 years it was everywhere, now it's just an engine choice type.

    I think EVs are about to make that same leap and have already gone mainstream. Tesla's role could suddenly be very much in the past tense.

    The challenge comes in a big way when the mainstream automakers, after a long and cautious approach, suddenly ramp things up and that's already happened and is continuing in that trajectory. They have huge scale, huge networks and very big brands. There are some very competent, sophisticated and stylish EVs emerging at this stage, and they don't have a free MAGA sticker, flame thrower and blue tick for your twitter account...

    His antics on Twitter really couldn't come at a worse time for Tesla. It's just about to make the jump into the mainstream, and now this... If I were a shareholder I would be really annoyed with him. He has 23.5% (at least according to what I can see from a quick search) and is showboating around and seen by the media as if he's the sole proprietor and has utterly entwined his image with the brand.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,529 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    would it be fair to say that in a sense that tesla were, for several years, the halo car for electric cars? an example of what electric cars could be but not the one you'd buy for yourself?

    their problem is that the days of halo cars for electric cars went into the millions a couple of years ago; teslas are just ordinary cars now, but with a hefty price tag. the real innovation now would be the ability to produce a decent electric car at a low price point, for the masses, but they've shown no interest in that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,070 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    From a Sky News article referencing an email Musk sent to all Tesla staff this evening, referencing the stock collapse.

    Unfortunately, he is talking rubbish, as is his recent form.

    Right now, Tesla is making cars of the most appalling build quality, using 10 to 12 year old chassis tech and IT.

    I have driven most of the EV products from Tesla's main competitors; BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo-Polestar. The very bad news for Tesla, is that apart from a few pointless party tricks, the competition are ALL better. They are built better, they are customer supported better and their continuous development is guaranteed, because we are talking about legendary makers, who can do it right.

    Even worse news for Tesla, is that brands who aren't even competing in their price band, are making more attractive EV solutions than Tesla themselves, and more will be launched in 2023 than ever before.

    So we've established that Tesla is a disappointment and a failure in many areas (truck and lorries) and its investors are in the horrors.

    I don't think it'll be the most valuable company in the World, I think it will either be taken over by another maker soon, or go bankrupt within 2 years.

    And so will Elon.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    Thats the problem. The biggest issue with electric cars is the price. Teslas are expensive. Electric cars being far cheaper to run than traditional cars there payback time can be measured in years if compared to the price of a second hand car.

    I'd argue that once the range gets up to 500/600km(4-5hours worth of driving roughly) the practical benefit of increased range drops of dramatically. Once car manufacturers meet certain customer benchmarks it becomes a battle of price/branding/style/extras something traditional manufacturers have decades of experience with. But the issue is that Teslas valuation has appeared to based of the idea that it would take years for competitors to meet basic consumer benchmarks. The problem is that doesn't look like its happened.

    On top of that Tesla has its own proprietary charger which long term will mean you will probably end up in an Apple Android scenario.

    These are just a few of the issues. To bring it back to Musk, it's important to remember none of the practical problems about Tesla that have been discussed on this thread are new. However what is new is Musks antics at Twitter. Teslas share price has been driven by hype and a lot of that has been centered around Musk. Musks behaviour and bad business decisions at Twitter has made people have another look at Tesla. However a correction of Teslas share price was inevitable but unfortunately for Tesla it has been brought forward its CEO. Musk has also damaged the Tesla brand in an industry where branding is very important.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,976 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    When your CEO's best argument is "I believe....", you know you're in big trouble.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    I haven't driven it yet but the new Prius looks like a better car to me than Tesla, that's right, Toyota Prius. If anything, Toyota is the new Ford, in terms of mass production, reliability and the car for the ordinary person but actually their new Prius might even be better than the supposedly luxury brand Tesla.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    you are correct, in fact they do have no ethics.

    It's honestly fun to watch such companies acting like they care about moral



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,998 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Nobody thinks they care about morals but they know the demographics who buy their products and have estimated many of those people do care about these things so they dont want their brand to be associated with things their customers are against.

    Yes people who buy the product are deluding themselves slightly but its basically the same relationship Musk/Trump fans have in that neither Musk nor Trump actually care one whit about their supporters as long as they keep giving them money.

    I do find it funny that right wing capitalists suddenly have a problem with free market capitalism working exactly as intended.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,070 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    It won't be as fast, which matters little in the real world, but it will be unquestionably better built and enjoy far superior customer support.

    A few other of Elon's nightmares that will appear soon.


    America's own Lucid Air, far better than a Tesla Model S in every way.

    Lexus RZ, the best built cars of all...

    Polestar 3, cooler and better than a Model Y

    Volvo EX90, better than a Model X

    Mercedes Smart small crossover SUV. Euro chic with global ambitions.

    And those are just 5 of about 40 global launches, not including Models that just recently arrived like the BMW i7 and iX1



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,475 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    And woe betide anyone who goes up against the motor industry and thinks they'll come out on top. What Tesla enjoyed was a relatively untrammeled, undisturbed market to stretch its legs; but with the automotive industry - a deeply embedded monolith within Americas's lobbyist landscape - pivoting towards electric, the good times might soon shrink. I seem to recall both powers already butting heads when it came to Tesla's custom showrooms.

    Tesla led the way, but like many pathfinders may find itself left for dead. I hadn't realised they're still sticking with proprietary chargers - that could yet kill them off completely if countries' infrastructure don't accommodate them (open to clarification there as again, far from an expert).



  • Posts: 13,688 Davis Salmon Scumbag


    The whole premise of the Tesla truck was stupid.

    They made a huge deal out of its acceleration when acceleration is the most irrelevant thing to a trucker. You'd save something like one-third of a percent in travel time over a 5hr period.

    Also they were going to be solar powered that "GUARANTEED" a constant supply of electricity with a "GUARANTEED" 7cent/kWh price. Battery would need to be replaced every 100k miles or so and the battery cost more than the actual truck.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,529 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i recall reading a thread here a few months back where people was saying toyota were in deep trouble, that they'd fallen too far behind on electric car technology and would have to outsource massive chunks of it to china?



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  • Posts: 2,725 [Deleted User]


    That Tesla Model 3 is one ugly ass car.



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