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Munster Team Talk Thread - Snymans are(n't) Forever

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    #15452
    irelandrover
    Registered Users Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120042683#Comment_120042683

    You say that munster should have got more or if the scrum?

    Who would you actually have as a better player in each position in a comparison. The leinster front row is far superior, second row goes munster's way and back row id say munster but only because id rate o mahony ahead of penny. The other two are equal.



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    #15453
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,275 ✭✭✭✭phog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120042772#Comment_120042772

    And the mask slips.



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    #15454
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120042683#Comment_120042683

    so the 1-10 became more important as a result. And that’s where Munster should have had the edge.

    I don't see it this way at all tbh. The real point if differentiation in the packs was the front-row talent in the loose (specifically Porter and Sheehan vs Killer and Scannell). The difference there was the winning and losing of the game. (I said before the game I suspected this would be the case; and that's exactly what materialised).

    Straight question: which front-row would you have preferred going into that game? I think it's pretty obvious tbh.

    Post edited by aloooof on


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    #15455
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120042772#Comment_120042772

    Mod: Careful, Syd. This is far too close to the type of trolling that has made a mess of this thread over the last while.



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    #15456
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120042404#Comment_120042404

    I don't really understand why tbh. When he was signed, he was considered a huge signing that would bring a level of power to our tight 5 that we otherwise don't have and was very evident on... whatever day the match was on. (It's that time of year where what day it is goes out the window).

    A player of his calibre could easily be the difference between winning and losing.

    And equally, I think the final sentence is a bit harsh; they've essentially half a season into a new cycle under a new coaching ticket. Leinster, on the other hand, are hugely established.



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    #15457
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120042913#Comment_120042913

    Though effectively that’s the point he is at. Potentially a huge signing. He has played so little that he could not be considered as part of the squad. More like a player that’s due to arrive at some point in the future. You can’t miss what you’ve never had. Or in this case count. That would be like Ulster saying they are missing Kitshoff.



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    #15458
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120042930#Comment_120042930

    I really don't see it that way tbh; if Snyman was fit last weekend, he would have started. He'll hopefully be fit before the end of the season.

    Even in his scant minutes, we've seen the difference he might bring with that try he got vs the Stormers. I don't think we've another player in the squad that finishes from there.



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    #15459
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120042950#Comment_120042950

    Yes undoubtedly IF Snyman was fit he would have started. In reality though in two and a half seasons with Munster, he has been fit 4 times. Two as a sub iirc. So for me it’s the same as saying if Kitshoff is fit when he joins Ulster, he will of course be selected for the interpros.



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    #15460
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120042971#Comment_120042971

    But another difference with Kitshoff is that Ulster aren't paying for him at the moment. Munster resources (which we're not getting to utilise) are going towards Snyman. Them's the breaks with injuries, but it's a huge difference.

    Ultimately, if you were to list players for Munster who you would not want injured, Snyman would easily be near the top of that list.

    I suspect this is another one we're not going to agree on, stephen ;)



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    #15461
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,499 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Ben Healy to Embra the latest rumour.


    https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1608385387722051584?t=ZDot22k_YeyxqtphAtdOIg&s=19




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    #15462
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120042902#Comment_120042902

    I’d take ours overall obviously. But my point wasn’t an overall one. It was that Munster should have been able to get on top of us more in the scrum. Porter still has issues at LH and Healy is not a TH. Killer and Ryan are both very experienced at LH and TH respectively. They should have had an edge there that didn’t materialise.

    In the second row Munster had a massive edge (on paper) over Leinsters second row. Add in POM (the best defensive jumper in the league) and they should have caused more problems at the line out, which was actually pretty smooth running for Leinster on the day.

    Disrupt and/or get on top of both set pieces and Munster then stop a lot of the open play stuff at source. Do that and Munster probably win the game.

    I’m deliberately talking more specifically about the set piece on this. Munster didn’t put as much pressure on ours as they should have. And in what was a 1 point game, that could (probably would) have been a game changer.



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    #15463
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120042980#Comment_120042980

    As you pointed out the FTD, Munster are not paying Snyman’s wages 🙂



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    #15464
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120043061#Comment_120043061

    Which is why I specifically said Munster resources. If 1014 group didn't pay for Snyman's contract extension, I think it's reasonable to assume they would have put that money towards another NIQ.

    Incidentally, I wonder if we'll see him around now that Leinster had 4 unused players on the bench at the weekend. ;)



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    #15465
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Former Former Former



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120043010#Comment_120043010

    Edinburgh have Blair Kinghorn and Jaco van der Walt. Unless one of them is leaving, I'm not sure how going there improves Healy's situation.



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    #15466
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120043058#Comment_120043058

    They should have had an edge there that didn’t materialise.

    I'd have to watch it back, but tbh I thought there were at least 2-3 scrums that should've been blown in Munsters favour. You can't really hold that against the front-row if the ref isn't giving it.

    But even with that supposed scrum advantage, you'd still go for Leinster's front-row. That tells you exactly where the winning and losing of the game actually was.

    In the second row Munster had a massive edge (on paper) over Leinsters second row.

    Did they really? Beirne obviously, but Baird and McCarthy are both in and around the Ireland 23 now. I rate Kleyn but he hasn't been in the Ireland squad outside a 3 month period in 2019.

    Disrupt and/or get on top of both set pieces and Munster then stop a lot of the open play stuff at source. 

    It wasn't really open play that was the difference in the game tho. It was the tight exchanges. Where Porter and Sheehan are significantly better than the Munster equivalents.

    That's what actually was a game changer, and the winning and losing of the game.



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    #15467
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120043066#Comment_120043066

    It's exactly the time of year where you'd expect a few agent-driven rumours or players out of contract at the end of the season. We'll see how it plays out.



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    #15468
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120043065#Comment_120043065

    Shows how callow the squad was, that we didn’t trust the bench.

    As I said on the match thread though. There were a lot more positives than negatives for Munster in that game.



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    #15469
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120043066#Comment_120043066

    If he can’t get past Kinghorn, then he should probably be happy with 3rd choice at Munster.



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    #15470
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,275 ✭✭✭✭phog


    The RGS stuff is crazy, he's a Munster player, a world cup winner and somehow a few posters want us to omit him from a potential matchday squad. The hoops some posters go through when they come on here is unreal.

    Is he injured yes, has he played for Munster yes, if the was fully fit last weekend would he have started for Munster YES.



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    #15471
    Joma4good
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭Joma4good


    The Ben Healy situation reminds me of the Harry Byrne scenario at Leinster, Crowley coming through and playing a few games has him as our future saviour without much top level evidence, in the same way Harry Byrne was feted, only to drop back down the pecking order behind his brother.

    Healey may be closer to Ross Byrne in overall style but a reliable no10 beats the fragile and inconsistent, if sometimes more flashy no10 in my book. I’m not accusing Crowley of anything other than being fairly new at top level and maybe benefiting from the shiny new thing syndrome. I’d personally prefer both of them on this seasons performance over Carbery. If he does go I’d hope it’s to Connacht or Ulster rather than Scotland.



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    #15472
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120043143#Comment_120043143

    ...and could he have made a difference? I think yes as well.

    If he returns the same player he's a game changer for us.



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    #15473
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120043179#Comment_120043179

    Healey may be closer to Ross Byrne in overall style but a reliable no10 beats the fragile and inconsistent, if sometimes more flashy no10 in my book.

    Whatever about anything else, Crowley hasn't shown anything to describe him as fragile. I think he's our most abrasive 10, tbh. (And I think you can expect and accept a level of inconsistency from a young 10 with less than 10 starts at 10 in his career so far).

    A large part of the reason HB dropped back down the pecking order is because of his injury profile. There's nothing to suggest so far that Crowley is in the same boat.

    (I've been saying for over a year that I think he'll be our starting 10 in the medium term. I think he suits our new style more than Healy as well tbh).



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    #15474
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,535 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120042909#Comment_120042909

    I want to apologise for that post lads, it was totally unwarranted and unnecessary. I'll put it down to being too far into a bottle of whisky to have any sense.

    Sorry



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    #15475
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,183 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120043179#Comment_120043179

    Agree on Crowley /harry Byrne comparasion ….Crowley is been massively hyped up ….so far it’s just on poteintal and as an u 20 …he hasn’t showed anything either starting or as a cameo at 10 at top level to show us that’s he’s natural position …..he’s career could end up a bit like say a like fits ….a utility back juggled around different positions with no defined position ….versatility could be his downfall intimately ….Ben Healy and fekitoa paid a heavy price for our form at start of season when we had no confidence and we’re playing poorly ……both will have a big role to play yet this season and then hopefully edgobo and sneyman also back in the mix



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    #15476
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,275 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Officials for Saturday's game

    Ulster vs Munster at Kingspan Stadium, Belfast - 19h15

    Referee: Andrew Brace

    Assistant Referees: Andrew Cole, Paul Haycock

    Television Match Official: Joy Neville




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    #15477
    clsmooth
    Registered Users Posts: 3,668 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120043182#Comment_120043182

    I think its fair to say thats a huge if. After 2 1/2 years out with serious knee injuries, I can't see him being the same dynamic player he was beforehand. It would be unfair to put that expectation on him. He's already a bit older and he's been out of the physcial rigors of the game during his rehab. Too often players come back but then pick up other injuries as their body tries to adapt to the previous injuries and impacts (see someone like Luke Fitzgerald).

    Plenty of players haven't got back to previous standards after less time out. From a Munster perspective, Conor Murray never recovered his best form aftter injuring his neck in 2018. Joey Carbery hasn't been able to get back to where he was pre the 2019 World Cup. Best case scenario would be getting a sustained run of fitness and adapting his game. It would be nice to see him, Munster and the Munster fans rewarded for their patience. Hope to be proven wrong, but I reckon he's probably done at the top level as the athletic impact player we saw in 2019.



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    #15478
    theVersatile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    https://twitter.com/OptaJonny/status/1608439807788855296?t=J3cs5nIfN_zHItw0DBJorw&s=19

    Interesting stat which probably shows more than anything that Munster's style of play has changed (and that Murray's addiction to box kicking for Ireland under Schmidt and JVG were likely coaching enforced rather than him deciding "ah I'll try a box kick here for the laughs" like some people would have you think).

    Would be interesting to see what percentage of touches he's getting in opposition halves this year compared to before, as he would be automatically less likely to box kick in those situations naturally.

    Sig.png



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    #15479
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,079 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120043532#Comment_120043532

    But there's no particular problem with box kicking if you do it well. I'm not sure being the team who makes the fewest is really a place you want to be either.



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    #15480
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120043770#Comment_120043770

    It's definitely interesting point for discussion.


    People used to bash Murray with the comment that all he did was boxkick so this is interesting for contrast.


    I would note that he is a better boxkicker than Casey so why is he kicking more than Murray.



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    #15481
    Neil3030
    Registered Users Posts: 17,152 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Why does it matter which of the Leinster and Munster selections were elective vs forced? If the Leinster squad had been chosen on the back of a church raffle, it would still probably win the URC and Gallagher Premiership at a canter (might need Doris for a Bouclier).

    And on the night, the Munster squad could have and should have beaten them.



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