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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,593 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Green policies also improve the standards of accommodation. Warmer houses, better insulation make for a better quality of life. Grants to reduce energy consumption reduce the cost of living, reduced anxiety for people on lower or fixed incomes

    There are no solutions only trade-offs. If you are tasked with providing accommodation you can have a 1000 units available including the 300 that completely meet your standards all at different price points, with the remainder having various infractions of your standard. When you apply the standard, 500 of those units disappear from the market and another 200 are updated to meet the standard. You have reduced the number of units available to 500 and those remaining command a higher price since maintaining the standard involves more overhead including extra paperwork that goes with the bureaucracy.

    Eamon Ryan in his role as part of the government of the day passed legislation that took 5 years before it took effect, the council came in an shutdown the slumlords. The people who rented these places could find another place at the time if they had employment, the reminder were kicked out onto the street. I'm talking about mostly single men in their 40s and over, some of whom are fond of the juice or socially isolated for various reasons. The type of people who don't vote and you don't want around, but, they are always there and always will be. What are the consequences when you are the bottom and have no where to go? Death. (1,2). Students and recently arrived economic migrants would also have been a large part of the former clientele. Students are high risk tenants, about one third of them disappear after Christmas in their first year, without supervision they have a higher propensity to wreck the gaff and engage in all night parties. i.e. there is an overhead to them.

    The slumlords got forced out, a new group of builders came in and did the places up, sold on to foreign investment funds. The funds don't deal with Housing Assistance Payment (HAP), if you don't have employment and can't meet the rental payments, in the current economic cycle, it sucks, your quality of life is much worse. You can see this in particular for university students this year, their parents need to stump up for high priced accommodation, if they can't afford it them must endure long travel times or defer taking on the course.

    The enforcement of standards carries an overhead and a price, those who can pay enjoy the benefits of improved standards of accommodation. If your income in not high enough to be a green voter, no service for you.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Green policies also improve the standards of accommodation. Warmer houses, better insulation make for a better quality of life. Grants to reduce energy consumption reduce the cost of living, reduced anxiety for people on lower or fixed incomes

    Absolute tosh. Warmer houses and better insulation are no where near the numbers needed to make for a better quality of life for all this country's citizens. See https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40990973.html as per that article green policies could only manage a smidgen of what was set out to do.

    The following though has been realised through green policies being implemented:

    • More expensive heating costs
    • more expensive transport costs (the vast majority have non-existent or very poor public transport alternatives)
    • more expensive electricity costs (as poor performing renewables coupled with marginal pricing policy keeps electricity generation costs sky high)
    • YoY increases to carbon taxes driving all of the above upwards
    • Grants that only served the already wealthy via €5k EV grants (though soon to be abolished now as most of the wealthy have got their EVs by now)
    • Better water quality is very debatable - still plenty of water boil notices all across the country https://www.water.ie/?map=supply-and-service-updates and the 42% of all supply leaking has only marginally been reduced to ~38% https://www.water.ie/projects/national-projects/leakage-reduction-programme/
    • Cycle lanes - the vast majority not being used
    • greenways and blueways - don't matter to most residents in their daily lives. Perhaps nice for a few tourists during the summer, but they're not going to pay the bills for most of the population. They're tourist projects.
    • As mentioned in the Examiner article above, grants to reduce energy consumption [to] reduce the cost of living, isn't happening at more than a snails pace. With just 89 homes out of 62,500 target for 2022 means you've hit 0.14% - i.e. a total disaster.
    • Meanwhile, green policies continue to champion harsher carbon taxes and costs (stick) while utterly failing to provide cost-effective alternatives (carrot) outside of a scheme for wealthy EV purchasers
    • "reduced anxiety for people on lower or fixed incomes" now thats just gaslighting 101. The vast majority of people are anxious like never before about being able to afford to heat their homes and pay their electricity bills, and thats before they purchase more expensive food owing to increased energy costs to:
      • produce food
      • process food
      • transport food
      • store food
      • and retail said food.

    All of the above can squarely be laid on the doorstep of the greens and green leaning politicians.

    The miniscule improvements green policies have brought about:

    • Throwing money at bus routes without proper timetabling has meant more mostly empty busses running, particularly in rural Ireland.
    • 89 houses are warmer now than in 2021 (out of a stock of ~2 million homes)
    • ~67,000 EV owners, the vast majority of whom are already wealthy, have been given €5000 each to purchase their EVs
    • Most of the above were able to avail of free public charging of said EVs until earlier this year. So, the wealthy EV got free fuel too!

    It's clear from the few minor improvements that Green policy is to look after the wealthy and crush rural Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    And to add to the recent post -

    the policies are also feeding in to:

    • Closed businesses
    • Reduced operating hours of other businesses

    Customers with less in their pockets will purchase less and businesses with increased costs will have to provide a more expensive service/product to said customers. This will initially lead to less operating hours as less footfall will make opening up premises a loss at certain points of the week.

    I already see this in the hospitality and some retail settings. Local shops are closing an hour earlier in the evenings and many hospitality settings are only operating Thursday-Sunday.

    This means reduced hours for staff and said staff turning to Social Welfare for supports. Some staff are actively seeking out a 3-day week to get inside the Social Welfare support tent. You cannot work four days a week and get Social Welfare support for the one day you are no longer required to work.

    But hey, we're going to "solve" 0.1% of climate change in the process.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Lots of folks around Athlone excited for the new fleet of EV buses on the way soon




  • Registered Users Posts: 82,538 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Any while the 'world burned' in 2022, wildfires in Kerry actually halved, who would have thought laws and actual sense would have more control on random wild fires than any environmental impact.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,593 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Didn't you say in a post a few pages back that the existing diesel fleet is being transferred over to Carlow?

    So claims there of a zero carbon service helping to meet emissions targets are a tad off in fairness.

    I also hope the EV busses were produced using zero carbon energy, however I have serious doubts about that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,593 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    From the UK. Offshore wind operators due to contract for differences (CfD) levy. Where the reference power price is negative then there is no top up payment to the generator, therefore if they are acting rationally they will switch off. Hornsea A + B, Walney Extension and Moray East all shut down overnight. 3.1GW offline.


    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    all these plans boast about being zero carbon. It’s so unbelievably disingenuous



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    You had your power cut off due to a local distribution problem. It has nothing to do with load shedding.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I did, it's brilliant that Carlow is getting a town service



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,825 ✭✭✭SeanW


    One thing a poster touched on above was all the Green regulation and how supposidly great it all is. Yet, as pointed out, regulations come with costs, sometimes extreme costs, sometimes borne by those who can least afford them.

    So thanks to the Greens we have an accommodation crisis that is the worst in the nation's history barring perhaps the 1920s and the "Angela's Ashes" era, multiple concurrent energy crises, all of them self-inflicted, leading to reduced business hours, unemployment and poverty, more fossil fuel use and thus carbon emissions than needed (because nuclear energy is off the table), a lot of dead large birds and bats killed by ugly wind turbine monstrosities, the industrialisation of the landscape on a scale unprecedented in human history, and a transfer of wealth from the poor and working classes to the wealthy on a scale unprecedented in modern history, and also until very recently, a transfer of wealth from Europe's people to genocidal Russian imperialists also on a scale unprecedented in modern history directly fueling their attempted extermination of the Ukrainian people.

    But hey, we get some quieter buses, so I guess that cancels it all out?

    Anyone want to take bets on how long it is until one of these buses catches fire with passengers inside? EV bus fires are not unheard of, and it's not exactly like plain old diesel buses add so much to our carbon emissions anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,593 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Anyone want to take bets on how long it is until one of these buses catches fire with passengers inside? EV bus fires are not unheard of, and it's not exactly like plain old diesel buses add so much to our carbon emissions anyway.

    There have been a few of those in Germany, aside from the fire risk (on a tangent see the Felicity Ace), the projects have been abandoned due to the replacement battery costs involved and other technical limitations.

    Speaking of fire risk here is a developing issue. E-bikes and likely scooters are growing and predicted to grow further in over the course of the decade: Experts Predict 30 Million Bicycle Sales by 2030

    This is a new hazard that has developed with these, it has become a serious problem in places like New York city and it is beginning here: Dublin Fire Brigade warning after e-scooter catches fire while charging.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,566 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    The capital cost of peaking plant that's used less will have to be paid for over fewer units. But for gas turbines the fuel costs far outweigh the capital costs. Even if Gas and oil prices have fallen to pre crisis levels. The limiting factor is emissions. And besides peaking plant already gets a premium.

    The spot price of wholesale electricity may go up a little on days when peaking plant is needed. But there'll be far fewer days. And retail customers don't pay the spot price yet , (if they did they have the option of avoiding high demand until weather picks up)



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,566 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    20 years ?

    How about we skip planning and start counting from start of actual construction rather than taking into account planning and legal challenges ?


    Between Argentina, Armenia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, Cuba , Czech Republic, Finland, France, Iran, Italy, Kazakhstan, Germany, Lithuania, Poland, Mexico , the Netherlands, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, the UK , the US and Ukraine construction started on just 12 new reactors in the last 30 years.

    Total delivered ? One reactor that failed after less than 30 days at full power.


    Reactors and construction start year.

    Lung Men-1 1999 - Abandoned 2014

    Lung Men-2 1999 - Abandoned 2014

    Olkiluoto-3 2005 - 2022 was online for less than a month before the feed pumps cracked in October. Regular electrical production now pushed back to March

    Flamanville-3 2012 - delayed

    Angra-3 2015 - delayed to 2028 (original construction start 2010)

    Summer-2 2013 - Abandoned in 2017

    Summer-3 2013 - Abandoned in 2017

    Vogtle-3 2013 - delayed

    Vogtle-4 2013 - delayed

    Carem-25 2018 - delayed to 2027

    Hinkley-C 1 2018 - delayed to 2027

    Hinkley-C 2 2019 - delayed to 2028


    Oh and none of the above are coming in on budget either so defo not cheap.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭F34


    Oh that’s fantastic and seems to be the green mantra going forward look outside and make sure the wind is blowing before boiling a kettle, putting on a wash or drying your hair.

    i would ask what happens when the wind doesn’t blow but I’d get the usual wall of text about un-costed and unproven technologies that will save the day.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,566 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    We don't have to decarbonise fully till 2050 so we can use some natural gas until then, and hydrogen after that, if nothing better comes along. (Our Winter demand is 1GW more than Summer which gives a budget for water and building insulation)

    The complex bit is working out the most economic mix of excess renewables, interconnectors, providing insulation, demand shedding, dispatchable renewables like biomass, a reduced quota of natural gas, etc. (wind + hydrogen is cheaper, quicker and more flexible than nuclear even if you could build nuclear on time and on budget)


    And you don't need to look outside http://archive.met.ie/forecasts/5day-ireland.asp click on "wind" and slide across. It's handy to see when it's likely to rain too. (and you can see how much wave power we could have if the tech gets cheap enough) The longer the arrows the more wind there'll be. Of course you'll have to wait until there's decent smart meter pricing. But if enough other people reduce demand the prices you pay would drop anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,112 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    So you expect Norway which is not even a member of the E.U. to adhere to a commitment to the E.U. while Ireland, a full member, refuses to fulfill it`s E.U. commitments on energy security.

    The E.U. just this month put a cap on gas prices, (while doing nothing about the marginal pricing policy where renewables are still getting paid the same rate as gas), something Norway warned against in September.

    Do not be overly surprised if the U.K. does cut the supply to Ireland that Norway take some time to sort that out diplomatically with the U.K. while we freeze in the dark and the E.U does nothing other than wring their hands on the sidelines.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,112 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    It doesn`t say much for this wind energy export market that Europe is supposedly waiting with open arms on if we fork out hundreds of billions.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,459 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    And if there’s a technical issue with the Moffat lines we are down 70% of our gas supply with NO storage available.

    Do you think that is acceptable?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    How likely are three pipelines to fail at the same time for a substantial period? It was never an issue before. Certainly, there should be storage to allow for macro level problems.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    (if they did they have the option of avoiding high demand until weather picks up)

    Gonna be great telling people to wait a few days to cook a dinner cause there won't be any wind until then.

    The green plan laid bare.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Our Winter demand is 1GW more than Summer which gives a budget for water and building insulation)

    add in whats required to entirely heat homes and fuel 945,000 EVs



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,459 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Well of course there should be storage.

    That’s what I’ve being saying on here all along.

    Eamon Ryan with energy within his portfolio is directly responsible for the continuation of this setup.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,386 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    cant ever see it happening here, unless we start experiencing frequent power outages....



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    So you’d agree a technical failure on the pipeline system is very very unlikely?



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,459 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    As likely as any other pipeline experiencing technical issues……..

    Would you agree it is a dereliction of duty on ERs part in not getting the process started in getting NG storage onto the system as soon as he found out we had none- which I presume he would’ve found out in the first couple of hours.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    It’s not a pipeline. There are three pipelines.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,459 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Are you going to give your opinion on ERs dereliction of duty or continue to evade?

    However I will add I thought there were just the two pipelines so thanks for informing me.

    Out of interest so do the three pipelines run together in a corridor or is two or three separate corridors?



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