buying second property for investment purposes

Now sneaky sneaky, trying to edit your posts. All can see the sarkey reply you made as I quoted it, your new post is quite a different post now that you realise you were wrong (and others can now see)...

You were wrong because you played the asshole, pretending to be an expert and you came unstuck.

I have no respect for you, if you had any self respect you would disappear.

Just to summarise for you again what you did:

1. You made asshole remarks.

2. You didn't know what the remiitance basis was, you instead talked about domicile levy and changing domicile.

3. I gave a circumstance where the OP would not be required to pay Irish tax on foreign rental income. You should have accepted this is something you did not have a contribution on. That was relevant to the OP. You did not heed my warnings and continued to be an asshole. This must be very embrassing for you.

4. You are now still not understanding that the OP may not have an Irish Domicile and regardless, will be required to pay tax in Spain/wherever on the rental income. There was no mention of domicile in the OP, just that they considered there would be no Irish tax payable.

5. Of course if the OP is Irish domiciled, they can confirm this themselves. In which case the remittance basis does not apply. But you are still an asshole for substituting knowledge with google.

Anyway, think there are a lot of people delighted to see you shown up like this, it is throughly deserved.

See above post. The OP is Irish. They are not Polish, nor from the planet Klingon.

Revenue will have the final determination as regards domicile for tax purposes. "Domicile" doesn't come into it for the OPs situation. It is useless to them. So arguing about it doesn't matter. They can take your advice and buy a whole graveyard somewhere, but it won't change anything.

Trying to change their domicile would only work after they had moved abroad for long enough (and would then be no longer tax resident or ordinarily resident here). For as long as they are tax resident, domicile doesn't matter.

Can't fix stupid.... You are trying to explain something you don't understand now and have forgotten your own argument!!!!

Remember you claimed remittance relief only applies if not ordinary resident!!!!!

Our tenant has recently left and we are putting out property on the market in the new year. So glad to be out of the swamp that is property investment in Ireland. We do have money lying around though looking to be spent and we have actually bee discussing buying a house abroad. We even know the town and the particular houses we are interested in.

Its in Portugal where we have spent a lot of time over the years. We could airbnb it if we wanted for when we arenbt there, but arent pushed about that tbh. Have some friends who we meet over there when we go and have known them for many years now. Currently tapping them for their own experiences on it. One had a house in Portugal and had 3 apartments in Dublin up til about 2 years ago when he sold all the ones in Ireland, so he will be able to advise us well.

But I am rambling. Point is that I understand what you are saying, that it looks like its better to invest property money abroad than carry the risk investing it in Ireland. I hear ya.

Well said Casati. As a landlord who has sold all but one property, I wouldn’t advise anybody to buy to rent. Landlords are treated badly on every front. If the government want to secure tenancy rights they should guarantee rents for any property which is up to standard.

The judgement made before Christmas to allow tenants owing €70,000 remain for a further two months should be an eye opener for any prospective landlord.

You don't even need to understand the words in the document, simply turn to page 9 and read the example of a person resident and ordinarily resident in Ireland who can apply the remittance basis.

I can't do anything else for you, you have conclusive examples from Revenue to refer to. I had a fair idea you would carry on behaving like a clown, and I was right about that too.

There is no advice on actions to take here, just a comment that Irish tax basis is not applied on a worldwide basis to all tax residents /ordinary tax residents. Everything else you allege is just your silly little games.

Your document, and any example in it, has no relevance to the OP. Your implicit agreement with the other poster that someone could have rental income in Spain and somehow avoid any tax implications in Spain, Ireland, or elsewhere, is also incorrect.

Nothing you have said is relevant to the OP. You can try to change goalposts all you like and pretend that you are talking about something else. If you want to talk about something else, go start another thread on it.

Is it you mission to ruin every single thread in the property forum. You can guarantee 100% when I scroll down through an interesting thread and then you make a comment in it that there will be whole slew of argumentative posts from you until the thread is ruined and eventually closed. Every single time. Why do this? Its almost like a mission that you have to just ruin an interesting thread. You just ruin the experience for everyone.

To everyone else - Sorry for the rant. Its just so annoying.

You can continuing being wrong if you want to. I don't care.

Yeah I don't care if you want to keep being wrong. Whatever makes you happy. No need for the projection. Have a nice day.

I thought its possible to write the tax off against the mortgage?

It was a question on my behalf,ie I don't know the answer.

Not advise,certainly not an expert,not sure where you got that from.Perhaps you could give an opinion or an answer instead of being a pr1ck?

Depreciation is only an expense for business accounts not for an individual landlord.

The function of rent is to charge what the market will bear. It has no relevance to how much a mortgage payment is.

I do agree the market is not functioning as a market. You can't force a market to act in a particular way, the market changes as the environment changes.

There is no law that the rent should be less than any mortgage payment, the function of rent is to pay the expenses and provide a long term yield for the capital tied up in the investment.

Even if the rent is the same as the mortgage, net of expenses, mortgage interest and income tax - the remaining income (that goes into increased equity in the property that is subject to house price risk) is likely to be a low yield on the amount invested.

This is why so many landlords are getting out, it isn't that they are financially illiterate. Quite the opposite, low yield+high risk investments just are not that popular for some reason.

Some of the risks:

• tenant stops paying rent for 3 years and challenges eviction in every court in the land, costing property owner 90k in lost rent and legal fees is a massive risk (as per recent case in the Irish Times).
• Irish property price risk is significant based on historical variation, although regulation has changed and may have reduced this somewhat.
• Political risk of a ban on on-fault evictions forcing sales with tenants in situe, impacting massively on property values.

And we have various experts on here complaining about 'free lunches'......

A mortgage is not capital(Edit: not quite true. What I meant to say is that it isn't money they sitting in a bank that they want a return on). If a landlord takes out a mortgage then the interest is the cost of mortgage. If a landlord invests their own capital then they can expect a return on that - and one would expect this to be better than bank interest rates otherwise they would of just put the money in the bank.

However as saving interest rates were basically 0 for 10 years one would of expected rents to be at an all time low but this didn't happen due to the total dis-function of our housing market.

I agree with some of your points. Landlord should have the power to evict tenants that are taking the ****. Very few would disagree with that.

Hopefully OP has had enough info to re-think - better to put your money in ETFs, or you can invest in property REITS (if you really want to).

That way you can get your money back if and when you need it.

A lot of people liked the idea of owning a property for their kids to use in college etc. but that will soon be off the table the way things are going. Because once you have tenants in it will become their forever home.

The net result is that your savings subsidise the provision of stable housing for strangers, the property won't be available for your own family.

Better to leave that provision to the government and REITs that are given huge tax advantages, unless you want to set yourself up as a housing charity.

There has never been a real comparison between the investment in a REIT and an owner investment property.

Im a landlord and im staying.

I can say without fear of contradiction that I have picked, treated and been treated very fairly by all my tenants over 15 years.

Ive never charged top dollar and always made repairs and replacements in a timley manner. If you make tenants pay unaffordable rent then your only lucky when they agree to move out, so charge high rent at your peril.

I know when the time is right to sell and thats not in the next 5 years and probably not even 15 years that I will not be making a profit on this, i only come out of it with the price i paid first day when CGT and fees are taken into account, the current rents go on mortgage repayments with very very little left over and ive been coming up with what i owe revenue myself, and its all above board tax wise.

If I sold and sat down and looked at the investment from day 1 to now i would have money, but i would have lost money overall.

No unless you can forsee a massive jump in property prices so that the value of your asset will increase greatly. There are no indicators of this happening, and if the governments plans for construction numbers come true (unlikely) it makes it leas likely. there does appear to be slight consistent increases over the last few years but nothing remarkable.

I can cover the costs to revenue, if i couldn't I would sell and ive never had a problem with a tenant that wasn't easily resolved.

Its more about being comfortable at a later stage in life, being able to help my kids get a foot on the property ladder and eventually having an asset that is debt free.

Its about having options, I could sell one place once it clears the family home as well, or decide to keep it.

Its a long long term investment that might not yield anything until the later stages of life and im ok with that.

A lot of if’s buts and maybes in that. I understand what your saying but tbh im not worried about any of that.

What your suggesting is drastic, and very difficult to implement, I reckon the next interference by the gov will be to allow additional deductions in some form if tenants are given a multi year lease.

I am not a tax expert! But the below is an example of gifting.

The most obvious one, which still quite a few people don’t seem to avail of fully, is the Small Gift Exemption. If you are a couple, you can give up to €3,000 EACH, to anyone, every year, with zero tax issues for you or them! ANYONE! Sticking to the topic, a couple can gift up to €6,000 every year to each child. But importantly, they can also do so to each child-in-law, partner, grandchild, etc. Taking an example; you have say 3 kids and 3 sons/daughters-in-law, and 5 grandchildren. In that scenario, as a couple, you could potentially be gifting €66,000 per year to them in total. To really spell this out, over the course of the next 15 years, you could pass on just short of €1m totally tax free! If that sum were instead subjected to CAT of 33%, you’ve just saved an unnecessary €330,000 tax bill.