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Honeywell Evohome underfloor heating issue

  • 29-12-2022 10:18pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭


    We got the Evohome system installed some 3 years ago. Downstairs, we have underfloor heating, 4 zones and rads upstairs.

    All worked well during the first year but last year and now this year, one of the UFH zones (kitchen) overheats despite the limits set on the stat and controller. Even if I set the temp limit to 16 degrees, this is disregarded and the temp goes to 23 degrees which makes the kitchen uncomfortable. The manifold alongside teh UHF pump were changed last year at a high enough cost but that didn't resolve the issue. The actuators seem to respond when needed but I find it very puzzling why the temp is not 'respected' by the controller. No issues with rads whatsoever and the hot water also works flawlessly. Some screenshots of a few days ago just in case someone can help





Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,964 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    What is the "remote sensor" bound to? I presume the floor only heats when demand for the floor is above 0%?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,303 ✭✭✭ongarite


    Worth asking in the home heating automation discussion thread. A few very knowledgeable posters who understand Honeywell, Drayton and Tado systems.




  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭regedit


    not the most tech minded person here but I guess the underfloor controller is bound to the main wifi (multizone) controller which is term bound t the wireless stat. Really strange that it is intent on keeping the hear to 23 despite me reducing the temp on the WiFi controller or the wireless stat. Terrified of the bills TBH but that aside not comfortable



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,964 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    The question is what is the "remote sensor" linked to in the settings, what does the evohome report as the underfloor temperature?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,007 ✭✭✭deezell


    1. If you turn off all the uhf zones, does the kitchen cool down.

    2. Is that temperature on the kitchen wall stat the actual measured temperature of the room, or the set temperature, that is, what happens when you turn this stat down, does it briefly display the requested temperature.

    3. If turning off all zones cools all ufh zones, when you turn up any zone other than the kitchen, does the kitchen heat up?

    Point 3 would suggest that one or both of the two manifold actuator controlled valves is not closing when the kitchen zone is off and power is removed from the actuator. I notice a blue ring on the top of both kitchen actuators. Is this a visual indication that the actuator is raised and on and is not compressing the pin on the valve to close it? It looks very like one circuit of your kitchen ufh (you have two) is allowing hot flow to circulate even when the actuator is unpowered, normally closed, and is not compressing the pin in the valve to close it. I'm guessing the raised actuator caps are and indication that the actuator plunger is lifted, either because it is powered or because it is not returning to closed. There should be no power to the actuator when it is off. It's also possible that the actuator is receiving power from some source, a faulty controller relay perhaps, meaning it never fully closes.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭regedit


    1. I have turned down the heat almost entirely in the kitchen and coupled that with turning down (not entirely off) another zone and will monitor whether this has an effect. If not, will couple the kitchen with another zone and try to exclude them that way. The temperature in the kitchen has slightly dropped already.
    2. The temperature displayed in teh kitchen wall stat is the measured temp (we tried bringing anotehr stat just to see if the evohome was accurate and it is). When I turn the knob on the stat, it tells me what the requested temp is
    3. The blue ring on the actuators is visible when're a need for heat

    but I THINK, up to now, kitchen was heated even when the actuators were off...




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,582 ✭✭✭John.G


    We're the actuator blue lights off when the actual kitchen temperature exceeded its setpoint by more than say 1.5C?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,007 ✭✭✭deezell


    That would indicate that the actuators are not fully closing the valves on the manifold. Any call for heat from any of the other ufh zones will heat the kitchen, though its set to off or well below its actual temperature. As this is a brand new manifold, and as the problem didn't go away with it's fitting, the fault must lie with one of the kitchen actuators, which is allowing flow at all times. If you have the plastic commissioning caps from the manifold, you can unscrew one or other, or both, of the kitchen actuators and screw down the plastic caps tight, which will push the valve pins down and close both kitchen circuits ( I'm curious why there are two, perhaps the kitchen is quite large and needed a double run of piping). Once you establish that the kitchen can be closed off while the manifold delivers to dining and living, you should investigate the movement of the actuator plungers, spay a bit of WD 40 up into them. When fully powered off the plunger inside should be down sufficiently to push the valve pin tight. If its stuck, worn, chipped or broken, it can't do this. Actuators about €15-30, cheap as chips, so don't hesitate to replace. Two wire connection, capable DIY territory and a LOT cheaper than a new manifold installation.

    My only other check would be to make sure that there is no voltage to the actuators when they're supposed to be closed, as a fault in the control relay could end up partially powering them and keeping them open.



  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭regedit


    Yes, the blue strip (just painted that way so it's visible when lifted/open) is down (indicating valves should be closed when the set temp is reached



  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭regedit


    Thanks deezell.

    when the manifold was replaced, the actuators were not touched as the plumber/heating expert tested them and said he's never seen these failing.

    The interesting thing is up to now, despite me lowering the kitchen temp on the controller (limiting say to 14 degrees), this had no effect and the temp went up to 22-23 degrees. What I did 2 days ago I reduced the kitchen temp (marked on actuator/manifold as 5 and 6) and paired this reduction with reduction in dining room (3 and 4) and we are finally seeing a reduction in teh kitchen temp to 19-20 which is fine. Not sure does this mean some sort of mix up during set up or?

    Dining room is small enough so not sure why it has 2 zones. Kitchen slightly larger so when the guy was servicing it last year, he labeled them as du al circuits

    I'd love if someone could recommend someone knowledgeable and willing to travel to Naas to have a look. The original evohome installer while meticulous was not a plumber and the guy that serviced, made repairs to the system (replacement of UFH pump, manifold and magnetic filter) didnt know anything about evohome...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,007 ✭✭✭deezell


    If these have only been labelled since the manifold swap, it's quite possible that some zones are opening each others loops. The actuators may be mixed up. You'll have to turn everything off. Let it cool substantially. Read the measured cooled temperatures. Then open just one zone, dining say. Observe which actuators raise. Your bare feet should tell you which floors are warming. If there's a mismatch, and a particular zone seems to be heating more than one room, then you've found your problem. You should also check to see if hot flow only moves from the manifold to the opened actuator. You will feel the top pipes heating if the flow is leaving them, so there should be no flow from the top manifold if it's corresponding actuator underneath is closed. Having said that I'm hoping that the top pipes are the matching flows for the bottom actuator controlled returns. If these got swapped during the manifold replacement, its not an issue as such, but it adds to the confusion. Heres hoping that the match.

    You need to establish which flow heats which area. The fact that three rooms have dual loops means there is greater potential for a mix up. There are 7040 ways you can position the 7 actuator heads on the valves! Only 8 are correct.



  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭regedit


    Thanks deezel

    I switched off UFH and all the actuators responded accordingly (see pic). Then, I switched on the kitchen UFH and manifolds 5 and 6 (kitchen) responded very fast while all others stayed closed. Then, I started turning on other zones and the actuators responded with the exception of the dining room (3 and 4-see pic) so I am guessing some cock-up between the kitchen and dining room...

    I'll try to find someone (almost mission impossible TBH) to have a look







  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,007 ✭✭✭deezell


    When you done this, did only the correct zones Heat, e.g, did only the kitchen ufh come on when you selected kitchen. Does the dining room ufh not heat at all? If these valves are always closed had you not noticed it colder, or perhaps it was being warmed by the air moving from adjoining rooms. Are they separated by doors, or is it open plan? As the dining room actuators don't seem to operate at all, I suspect that your Dining room stat or sensor is paired to the same relay that opens the kitchen actuators. This would explain why the kitchen actuators remain open and heating though the kitchen stat is turned down below current temperature. With all zones off and all actuators closed, does turning up the dining room result in the kitchen actuators opening? This is the only other logical explanation, and the problem would appear to lie with misconfiguration of the stats or sensors to the actual evohome relays which operate the actuators. If the hall stat is doubling up on opening another zone, it's never going to heat its own sensor and as a consequence it will hold that other zone open. I should also ask if the room thermostat sensors are all just air temperature sensors, without wired sensors down into the floor. I presume there is one of these circular wireless display sensors for each uhf zone? The configuration page for the Kitchen shows "Devices Bound" in the 'RF Devices Binding' panel. Can you expand this in the controller or on the app, to see which actual device is bound.

    You have to establish if another zone somewhere is keeping the kitchen actuators open. Don't forget that heated air from an adjacent heated zone may be convecting into the kitchen from another room raising the room temperature, despite the kitchen stat being lowered below current temperature. I presume all your actuators are wired back to an Evohome HCE80 or HCC80 ufh controller. The binding of this is reasonably complex. The minimum version has 5 zones. Up to 3 actuators per zone can be powered, though not every zone wiring termination has three terminal plugs, so I assume the dual zoned actuators are just spliced together together at the ufh controller. Try opening the dining again, but with the kitchen off and its actuator caps down. See if the kitchen ones open when they shouldn't. Heres some reading for your also.

    What basically needs to be established is which remote sensor is the kitchen zone, is there more than one, and which devices, namely the actuator relays in the ufh controller, are bound to which zone. Particularly the dining room sensor. The round single zone stat you posted, (T87RF) is interesting in that it doesn't appear on the list of devices that can be bound to the uhf controller as a sensor device, only three other types with digital, analogue and no manual adjustment are listed. Has every zone got a (T87RF) to set its temperature locally?



  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭regedit


    Thanks for all the help

    When I select that I want the kitchen heated (I never really rely on the T87RF) but the control unit itself, if other zones are warm, only the actuators for the kitchen (K) engage. The dining room (DR) heats too and I do see the actuators engaged (responsible) at times. I don't think there's heating by convection.

    On a separate matter, the higher the temp in the dining room is set too, I think the higher the temp goes up in the kitchen. No idea why. Operating the DR itself, does nothing to the actuators in K but as I said, if the temp in DR is set too low, K seems to be lower.... The room stats T87RF must be air stats as there's no cables but then again, guessing they may be paired with teh HCC80 thermometer as I tried having a thermometer beside the T87RF and the shown temp was identical between both

    below is a screenshot of the scenario when device bound is pressed. There's Evohome Sensor and Remote Sensor. It's set to remote sensor. I never touched it




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,007 ✭✭✭deezell


    Evohome sensor is afaik the built in sensor on that wireless and portable controller unit, so you can have it beside you in the living room say and use it to get an accurate reading of temperature right beside you.

    If you turn the kitchen off completely, set it right down, what kind of temperature does it read after a day of the other zones being on. Can you tell from the floor if its warming even though its actuators are off? A little infra-red thermometer is a useful tool in this regard, even a medical one, as it will show the floor radiant temperature , you can compare zones to their stat settings to see if they're pushing out heat despite their actuator valves being off. If any single actuator on the manifold is open for heat, the boiler and mixing valve/pump assembly kicks in, so if any of those actuators is not pushing their valve pin fully home, even a tiny bit, that zone will heat though its valves are supposedly closed.



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