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Reflection on the pandemic: questions about the authorities' response.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    And let me guess, you agree with the Journals version? Ireland: the land of no responsibility no accountability and no consequences.



  • Registered Users Posts: 989 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    I don’t really see it as a different take, it’s much the same as what is in the examiner except for an emphasis on what Martin said last year, which may be irrelevant now.

    Varadkar is quoted as saying;

    that “a lot of the people who are on the front line dealing with the trouble in our health service at the moment are the same people who we would be asking to come before inquiries and take time out to prepare for their testimony”.

    They will be asked to give an account, and although there will be no consequences I welcome the opportunity to hear some explanations for some of the decisions taken.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,301 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    It'll be interesting if Tony will be asked to explain why, after a public roll out of Level 1-5 restrictions in August of 2020, did he then return from absence, directly undermine Nphet who had only days previously reported to the Government, undermine the Government, particularly Varadkar, going public on a Sunday evening through the media by frightening the s**t out of the population insisting we essentially scrap the level 1-5 protocol and go from Level 2 straight into level 5? (a completely reckless act, demonstrating in my view, that the power given to him had got the better of him, he behaved disgracefully, luckily, the media were in thrall of him, might have had something to do with the HSE ad money that kept the media afloat)

    Also, Martin needs to explain why he is so in favour of the WHO Pandemic treaty?

    Also, maybe someone should ask what the origins of this virus was? You'd think that'd be important given the cost to the state and the population!!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,938 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    There have been multiple investigations into the origins of the virus, it's widely believed it was zoonotic in origin but that hasn't been proven yet (therefore other theories, e.g. accidental lab leak cannot be ruled out). A definitive answer is heavily reliant on full access within China, which is unlikely as it's China, so it's likely we may never know.

    As for the origins in Ireland, it was a global pandemic, likely any number of people travelling brought it here, was always going to be unavoidable considering what we know now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,543 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Well I'm not really sure as the media outlets seem to be reading between the lines so perhaps best to wait until things are finalised.

    I don't believe for one second you are interested in genuine responsibility and accountability but consequences only.

    I don't think anything would be served by turning this into a blame game and that would detract and hinder what it should be about - an evaluation \ learning process. This was a novel event, people acted out of the best motives in what they thought were the best interests of the state based on evolving circumstances and information. This was not business as usual.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There won't be any consequences for anybody of course and nor should there be. Incompetence is not the same as guilt.

    But I'd like to see an acknowledgment that we went against the world on the topic of Antigen tests.

    Would also like an acknowledgement that several restrictions were anti science and went on far longer than necessary.

    Would like to see an acknowledgment that medical professionals had too much media access and it wasn't helpful.

    Also that the models need a lot of work if they're to play a role going forward.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,938 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Next time there's a pandemic they should ask 10 Boards posters what the country should do and try to do those invariable 10 different things



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They don't need to ask boards members. Just follow the science and data.

    Too often we refused.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,938 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Registered Users Posts: 16,619 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Given that most of the anti-restrictions crowd don't understand the basics of modelling, it's doubtful the enquiry will satiate them in any way.

    But its funny to see someone complaining about following the science and in the same breadth not wanting those professionals access to the media to explain the science (mostly because it flew in the face of their own crackpot theories).



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,823 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    A fair few want this enquiry because they believe it will show they were right all along about NPHET trying to plan a military coup where the unvaccinated would be sent to the ovens.



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Our medical professionals went against the science on Antigen tests and even went as far as going on live TV to demonstrate how an average person might not be capable of doing a test properly. Apparently it would be too hard for the Irish to grasp sticking a swab in your nose.


    Also, the government had to eventually take steps to prevent NPHET using the media in the manner that they were. "Members of the committee will now have to get permission from the government press office before speaking to the media."


    Senior ministers became angered over alleged "leaks" of recommendations which were publicised prior to the formal announcement by the Taoiseach..



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,823 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I completely agree that the average person couldn't do the tests properly. I knew a fair few who I didn't trust to shove that up their nose and I've seen people walk around with the tester which can void them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,542 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    And when the enquiry is done those people demanding it will just dismiss it as a waste of money/cover up/disgrace that hid the truth.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,542 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Some couldn't even understand masks, fùck some even thought they were soiled nappies. Testing would certainly have been beyond them.



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    And this is why Ireland is a nanny state.

    Despite all the evidence otherwise, some people still think we couldn't shove a swab up our nose, or purchase alcohol at 12pm on a Sunday etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,823 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985




  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Same point though. And lockdown was much the same.

    People desperate for authority figures to tell us exactly what to do and when.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,823 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Thinking Ireland is a nanny state is horsesht CT forum stuff and an absolute insult to people who really suffer under nanny states.

    Anyone who thinks they are "suffering" under a nanny state in Ireland is frankly a snowflake.



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't think you can talk about insulting people when you openly say you don't trust people to shove a swab in their nose.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,823 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    The problem with following the science was that the science was changing on a regular basis especially early on in the pandemic. There were a huge amount of unknowns. Ultimately when people say the government followed the science they were following NPHETs interpretation of the science.

    NPHET didn't get everything right. But everyone involved in the response made mistakes and there were a lot of honest mistakes made because of incomplete/changing information.

    The enquiry won't satisfy the extremes but the whole approach to the pandemic needs to reviewed to learn from.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,542 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Yep the whole "nanny state" argument is just another example of exactly why some adults needed to be treated like children.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,619 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Yep and try explaining how new facts changes the response and actions, many on here have tried and there are still arguments about things as fundamental as how masks or social distancing work or refusing to understand what a vaccine is.



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No adults need to be treated like children. We have one of the highest vaccination rates in the world and people are more than capable of taking an antigen test and personal responsibility.

    That some people want authorities to put all sorts of rules and regulations in place to tell us what to do and when is sad...



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,542 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Amazing how ye guys try to retcon things.

    For years "anti mask" people were falling over themselves proclaiming masks were ineffective/useless since people weren't using them right and failing to cover their noses properly.

    Yet supposedly the people who couldn't master masks are able to self test properly?

    Seems unlikely, generally when people fail at the absolute basics its very unlikely they can manage much without adult assistance.



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Since you don't trust people to test, would you be glad to see all Antigen tests removed from the market?

    Maybe the only way to test should be PCR by a trained medical professional?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    I agree. Unfortunately the big advantage of conspiracy theories is that the present a very simple view of the world. Cutting edge science which Covid 19 was at the start of the pandemic is the complete opposite.

    It will be interesting to see what comes out. Mistakes were made but mistakes were inevitable given the limited and changing information available. It's still important the review happens.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38,321 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    NPHET caused so much anxiety among the public including here (which was a place many of us had too vent)

    Forgot and forgive and 'ah there harmless and only doing there jobs' etc, Irishness at its most and **** all consquences will happen for anyone who made decisions. Sure ' Youre lucky to be Alive'



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,771 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    It's called common sense (an admittedly alien concept to some)


    While making decisions that affect millions of people with constantly evolving real time Data, you also wanted them to be under the fear that if they made a wrong decision they would what? Be struck off the medical register? Arrested maybe? Maybe tony holohan could be marched through the streets with a bell around his neck.


    It's incredibly telling that the ones who screamed let us live the loudest are still complaining about not being allowed live, rather than actually living. Maybe they just had no lives to begin with.

    A comprehensive review as a template for future reference - absolutely

    Any sort of point scoring "it was the big bold nphet, we're just the government what power do we have" revisionary bollix - nah.



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