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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans in OP**

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  • Registered Users Posts: 931 ✭✭✭flanna01


    It is widely accepted that Sophie kept a diary, she was known to update it religiously and always kept it upon her person.

    She recorded all her thoughts and expectations, and one would presume her fears.....

    Her diary was never recovered from the cottage, nor among her personal belongings, nor was it recovered back in France.

    it's missing.

    Obviously, this raises the question... Who would steal it? What revelations were enclosed within the pages of the journal? Was the contents of that diary related to Sophie's death??

    One item that Sophie was never without... Just dropped off the face of the Earth.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,716 ✭✭✭chooseusername



    I don’t know about her diary (as in dear diary), but her 3 years journals among other things, were taken from the house by forensics. They were examined and found to contain her appointments, contacts, travel arrangements etc. No reference to Ian Bailey was found in them. I believe they were not handed over to the French investigators, which may be where “lost diaries” came from. But they did surface and were examined.



  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven




  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven


    I think one of the French documentaries showed a photo. They are on YouTube if you want to trawl through.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    It it appears to be real..see below.

    "“It was a French vintage not stocked by any pub or off-licence in the West Cork area.” He suggested that subsequent forensic tests were unable to throw any light on the matter for gardaí. The bottle of wine was worth around IR£70 at the time, and would fetch well over €100 today. Checks with French police showed it was stocked at airport duty free. It was claimed in the book the wine had vanished, but it is believed the bottle, with its distinctive label, may be retained. In a statement made in April 1997 — three and a half months after the murder — a then-teenage boy told gardaí: “As I was going in across the fence about 20 yards on the coast road side of the junction leading to Sophie Du Plantier’s house, I noticed a bottle partially covered by withered rough grass. It was about 3.30pm at the time.

    “I found it at a place that I pointed out to Detective Sergeant Walsh at 3.50pm on Wednesday, April 9. I picked up the bottle and I saw that it was a full bottle of wine. I left it where I found it and told my parents about it when I got home.” The next day he went with his father to the spot. “I collected the bottle and showed it to my father. He examined it, and decided to take it home with us. My mother rang the gardaí at Bandon and told Garda Kevin Kelleher about it. “This is the same bottle of wine that I now hand over to Detective Sergeant Walsh. My fingerprints, and that of my father, may be on the bottle. My mother's fingerprints may also be on this bottle. “The point where it was found is about three feet in off the road.” Five years later the now young man made statements to gardaí, in April and June 2002, in Co Cork indicating the wine bottle had suddenly come back into the equation."



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    It probably is burned by now. I can't see any reason why the killer(s)would keep it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,716 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    "Her diary was never recovered from the cottage, nor among her personal belongings, nor was it recovered back in France.

    it's missing."

    I don't know where that story came from, her diary has been quoted widely in books and newspapers;

    Her diary " thoughts, expectations and fears" as you put it, probably stayed in France where it came to light after her murder. Laura Marlow quoted extensively from it in this I.T. article. in 2019.

    As I said earlier she took her journals ( filofax) with her which were never lost.

    Neither of which by the way, made any mention of Ian Bailey, Eoin Balley or any other such person.

    Post edited by chooseusername on


  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven


    I hadn't previously twigged that the wine Sophie bought in Schull was a bottle of champagne. This was found unopened in her house, I believe. I'm sure someone will correct me if not.

    In my opinion you don't buy champagne to drink on your own. So she must have been expecting company.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I hadn't realised that either. Where did you hear that?

    Was it being chilled in her fridge or or just sitting on a wine rack (warm so not ready for use)?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven


    The champagne is mentioned in this French YT video. It is in another one too but I can't refind that one at the moment.




  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven


    It is at 43:10 in this one. A reconstruction.

    https://youtu.be/R2-n9bZ72g8



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I'd say that back then, the available selection in a small supermarket in Schull would be, for a French person, poor (or else at an extortionate price). If you were French and planning on celebrating with someone, you'd get something better at the duty free in France - unless it was some last minute plans.

    Also, if she was buying bubbly then she had plans to celebrate something with someone. My recollection was that she wasn't going to be there for New Years and would ve back in France for Christmas. Who was she due to meet and did she meet them?



  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven


    I am just surprised it doesn't seem to get much coverage (if any) in the English language media. I suppose the implication she was expecting a visitor spoils the narrative. Her paramour didn't show but in a million to one chance she opened the door to her killer thinking it was he. It makes the jettisoned bottle more of a mystery. If Sophie had to buy a gift in Schull what was the other bottle for? That could only come from France. Maybe the perpetrator got hold of the French bottle and left it as a red herring to back up the French connection canard to mix my metaphors.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,243 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Since it only appears in the French telling of the story how much should we believe it?

    I mean we can't believe the evidence that convicted Bailey in France, so why should we believe that there is any truth to the champagne story?

    What is their source?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    I doubt very much that the discarded bottle of wine was planted as a diversion. It wasn't found for some months afterward and was covered in grasses somewhere witihn 700M of the house (not sure of that distance). If a diversion it would be made easier to find, as it was it may have never been found at all.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I hadn't realised it was several hundred metres. So, how do we know it is related to the murder?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,716 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    We don't.

    It was found a km. away on the Kealfada road by John Hellen.




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    So it mightn't even be hers?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,716 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    It could be anyone's, it's all guesswork. No trace of where it came from, no fingermarks, other than the finder and his family members who handled it.

    It was found a yard in off the road in a grassy ditch.

    It may have nothing to do with Sophie at all, but you must admit, it's a strange find in such a place at such a time.

    Post edited by chooseusername on


  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven


    Well the evidence used in Paris was the same Irish lack of evidence rejected by our DPP.

    I was hoping someone might tell me the origin of the champagne clue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven


    In the same doco it also says

    "elle commande aussi un exemplaire du monde chez le marchand journaux elle compte passer plusiers jours ici"

    Which I get as - she also ordered a copy of Le Monde from the newsagent as she plans to stay several days here.

    Which makes it look like she wasn't planning to go back Monday or Tuesday. Would anyone order a newspaper for one day? She would have to leave in the early hours Tuesday to get the Cork to Paris plane.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,038 ✭✭✭Deeec


    The reason for Sophie visiting her home in Cork was supposedly to get the heating fixed. I cant find any confirmation anywhere if she did in fact get the heating fixed during her visit - Does anyone know if a plumber did call to the house in the days prior to her death?

    Surely the housekeeper could have arranged the repairs and there was no need for Sophie to be in the house - so was this reason an excuse made up by Sophie. Also coming to an old house with no heating in December would'nt really make sense as the house would have been freezing. The chances of Sophie ( a stranger to the area) getting a plumber out in those busy days before christmas would be slim.

    Also she was supposed to have asked friends and family to go with her to cork because she didnt want to be alone but nobody was available - Why didnt she bring her son with her? It was a very odd time of year to travel on her own.



  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven


    The champagne is mentioned in a 26 December 1999 Sunday Indo article by Liz Allen. I don't see it in the publicly available crime scene photos. Maybe because it is of significance?




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Well we can't be sure but it surely is related to her. The question is, is it connected to the murder? I mean how many expensive, not available in Ireland, French, unopened bottles of wine turn up in the ditch, near where a murder happened?



  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭EdHoven


    If anything it could be construed as a black mark against Bailey. If he had the wine in the car when Shirley spoke to him on the road (if it was the main road?) telling him about the Garda cordon he might have rapidly disposed of it.

    But why take that bottle from the house but not the champagne? It's not like a sommelier recommends a fine wine to accompany murder.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,975 ✭✭✭Xander10


    Maybe the bottle of french wine was an Xmas offering to her neighbours?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,716 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Bailey had already passed the spot on the Kealfada road where the bottle was found when he met Shirley down the boreen, assuming he was coming from his house direction..



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,243 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    But it may not even be related to her.

    If it's available in airport duty free then anyone passing through an airport could have bought it.

    And even back in 1996 there were a lot of contentials visiting, living and owning property in places like west Cork.

    Just because it's French, Sophie was French and she was murdered doesn't connect them.



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