Russia - threadbanned users in OP

And Ireland?

Most of Western Europe has given sweet fu67 all in all types of aid, but especially military.

America is by far the most generous but in terms of the American defense budget it is a tiny figure so even with fatigue in Washington, which is very unlikely, it will keep coming.

Fatigue was always in Rome, The Hague, Berlin, Vienna and Paris, a bit more makes no difference.

It is not going to set in in Washington, London, Warsaw, the Baltics and they are frankly the only friends that Ukraine can count on from start to finish.

Nice drone drop-

The Dutch government recently announced a big support package for Ukraine.

Now that's what you call "Bang for your Buck" !!! And judging from the mad rush from the building, they knew it was coming.

I said that all types of aid from much of Western Europe has been dire and a pittance to date.

There is more than military aid, the Kiel institute in Germany, one of the oldest economic institutes in Europe, has collated the figure online up to end of November 22 for financial, military and humanitarian.

Lots of small countries in Eastern Europe doing seriously heavy lifting, lot of the richest and strongest in Europe doing token gestures to date across all 3.

Hopefully that will change as the capitals of Western Europe come to accept that Russia can't win and decide to be serious about supporting Ukraine, hopefully.

Brexit has nothing to do with it, they don't control what European Govts spend.

The biggest problem facing Russia even after the the war finishing and sanctions being lifted etc,( normality if you like), will be the same problem that has always handicapped Russia, and that's the endemic corruption. Its like an Eifel Tower that has never had any maintenance and is riddled with rust, and with each storm its chances of collapse grow. Russia is in the middle of one such storm now, and its anyone's guess what will remain standing when it finishes.

I'd say that he's battling for his very own survival now, and his only chance to come out of it is with the "New Russian Territories'" firmly ceded to Russia. Which is not going to happen. So for him, nothing to lose by battling on to the last man, or until the Russians themselves turn on him. Which could still take some time.

Another thing about Clonan is that I get the impression he is somewhat ambivalent about Ukraine and Zelensky and is not overly supportive of them.

Explosions were audible in Kursk

I don’t see how you can drawn any conclusions on how the eu would act if attacked as Ukraine isn’t a member of the eu. The response whatever it may be would be entirely different if a member state was attacked.

Let’s not also forget that after the collapse of the USSR Ukraine was the 3rd largest nuclear power in the world. The USA and the Uk pressured them in to giving up their nuclear weapons to Russia with the promise of security assurances for doing so. Worked out well for Russia.

Join NATO incase we are attacked? By whom? Russia is a lost cause at the moment and falling apart. Ireland is the last thing on their mind. Who else China? The only island they’re concentrating on is Taiwan.

Plus the US is very volatile at the moment. The most watched pundit in America is right wing tucker Carlson. He’s on the record as saying he’s on Russias side in the weeks before the large scale invasion. He’s constantly criticising military aid to Ukraine and questioning Zelenskys character. A growing number of right wing politicians are echoing the same. We don’t know what nut job could take over from Biden and what direction they may take. American is simple too unstable to even contemplate joining NATO. That being said If we lived close to Russia I would be for joining but there’s no point as things stand and I don’t see that changing any time soon.

I just don’t see any scenario where Ireland needs to join NATO because of the threat of invasion as things are.

Boards always seems to love a good recession porn thread.

Bulldust

There are some countries that have been woefull, but the Netherlands isn't one of them - much to my surprise.

And that was 28th February, so talk about being quick out of the gate.

And here's the full list:

That's a pretty list, especially the tanks and stingers. Sometimes it's quality over quantity etc...

It's worth pointing out that pledged aid is not the same as delivered aid when people compare figures.

Also worth mentioning, some countries like Germany don't publically announce every bit of kit delivered.