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Roderic O’G: Transgender issues added to primary curriculum

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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,043 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Given the number of transgender people in ireland numbers in the single digit thousands i disagree that its typical or usual.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,010 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Because like you said, it's literally not a problem. It's a simple fact of life, and nothing to be worried about. We already teach them about cis gender identify all the time already, in hundreds of different ways - this is just being complete.



  • Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭sekond


    As for the transgenderism explaination - I think you leave yourself open to a hell of a lot of questions if thats how you explain it to a 2nd class kid.

    A friends kid came out as transgender when our youngest was in the second half of 2nd class. My child asked why we were now calling "Mary" "Michael". I said "Mary felt that she really felt like more of a boy, and wanted to be treated as a boy and called Michael". My child's response was "ok".

    Follow up question about 6 months later - "I wear a lot of boys clothes and like some of the same stuff they boys do, does that mean I have to be a boy" "No. Do you feel like a boy?" "No, I'm a girl". Conversation and topic ended, other than her occasionally correcting me when I accidentally use the wrong pronoun for a friend of her older sister.

    I'm lucky that I have a fairly easy relationship with my kids where they will ask questions on stuff, but I'd like to think if the same thing had happened in school, the teacher would have been able to handle it in a similar way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Jarhead_Tendler


    Because not everybody is on board with the trans fad. Fair enough if an adult believes they were born the wrong sex away with them and the best of luck. However why should it be taught in schools It should be kept out of schools any more so than uncle Ivor thinks he is a sea urchin so he is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,583 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    If it's not a problem, why spend any time on it?

    I'd prefer to make the decisions around what ages and when I'd have those conversations with my kids to be frank. There's absolutely no need for it to be taught to young kids.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,010 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    That business of equating transgenderism with thinking that one is an animal or an inanimate object is as absurd as equating homosexuality with paedophilia or bestiality. They're completely and utterly different things.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,010 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    You're going around in circles saying it's not a problem on one hand but it definitely shouldn't be discussed on the other. You're not making any sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,583 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Kids accepting people isn't a problem, it's never been a problem. Kids don't notice colour/ethnicity/gender by default.

    Why spend valuable time in a classroom environment trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist?


    And again, as a parent, I'd prefer to deal with these types of things if and when they become relevant to my child.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Jarhead_Tendler


    I would never equate child abuse with any person's sexual orientation thanks very much



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,359 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    So why don't you teach your children about it and let the parents of the other children teach their children about it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭j2


    Why wouldn't society be set up to accept 95% of the population? It's not like some kind of decision was made where people elected to accept heterosexuality, it is normal by any reasonable definition of the word. Also the reason we're somehow protecting children from "gender identity" is because even a cursory glance at some of the crazed activist types who have made their way into the teaching profession in the USA for example, along with the 155% increase in children identifying as transgender also in the USA, means that parents have very good reasons to be incredibly wary of how this information is being conveyed and who is conveying with, along with their motivations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,504 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    I mean we will do everything we can to protest at local level , that won’t include book burning



  • Registered Users Posts: 150 ✭✭AnnieinDundrum


    Unless you are with your child 24/7 you don’t know when it might be relevant.

    what if the child in the seat next to them in school comes in wearing a dress and wants to be called a girls name? You won’t be there in the classroom that day to ‘deal’ with the questions.

    much better if it’s been covered in an age appropriate manner well in advance,


    I think a certain teacher in the news again today needed some education before it became relevant for him as he clearly wasn’t up to speed in time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 150 ✭✭AnnieinDundrum


    Do you comment on other aspects the school curriculum?

    Or is this topic special?

    just curious.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,504 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    You sound like the kind of parent who looked forward to the day you could share your progressive politics with your children, as such , they didn’t need to learn such things in school

    teaching kids about “ refugees “ is politically motivated and politics has no place in primary school curriculum



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,010 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Do you think the same thing about the big bang, or the earth being round, or the holocaust?

    The education system should provide all children with a rounded, and grounded, education. That includes the basics of gender identity as much as it does many, many, many other factual topics.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A paragraph that we’re all different and be nice to each other should suffice 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,043 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    the basics of gender identity are well covered, what we are talking about here is something to a tiny minority of people identify as.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,636 ✭✭✭Nermal



    Teaching cannot exist without an underlying philosophy or agenda.

    Even if one confines teaching to supposed 'facts', the selection of which facts to teach is in itself an ideological decision.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Jarhead_Tendler


    Where do we draw the line. Irish teenagers are now identifying as furrys. Actual people who believe they are a cat or a dog. Where will it all end?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 150 ✭✭AnnieinDundrum


    Perfect for JI

    maybe a bit more for those hitting puberty, they’ll have more questions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,583 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    My now five year old, spent two years in pre-school. The first year there was a person who identified as male in the group with them, the second year the kid had begun wearing female clothes and prefered to be called a different name.

    She didn't blink an eyelid at any of this but halfway though the second year (she was 4 and a bit) she mentioned how nice that persons dress was that day which sparked a conversation.

    Do you suggest age appropriate teaching at 3? Would age appropriate teaching have changed anything in those two years for my daughter or indeed the other kid?


    One of my young sons has a class made with two dads. It's come up as he has gotten older and it's something we've discussed as he has realised that family make is in the minority. I dont see the issue of me having those discussions with my kids when I deem it appropriate.

    (names/terms used to protect identities etc)

    If you want to suggest that the actions of one, particularily cantancourous person, justifies spending countless person house teaching young kids about gender, you are certainly on the wrong path btw.

    People get educated in various areas - doesn't stop them from doing wrong/bad/stupid things.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,010 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Again, equating furrys with transgender people is absurd. Furrys don't actually believe they're animals. I hope you didn't swallow that ridiculous story about litter boxes in classrooms, did you?



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Where do we draw the line. Irish teenagers are now identifying as furrys

    Huh? Where and whom?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,504 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    These proposals are deeply radical so naturally I’m alerted to the fact that major changes might well happen to the curriculum



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,359 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    No, the State's schools provide education in areas where parents are happy for assistance to occur, as parents are the primary educators. The State has only ever had a supporting role in education.

    It's the parents responsibility to teach about gender identity. Always has been and no compelling argument has been put forward as to why that needs to change.

    I trust parents, do you?



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Jarhead_Tendler


    Well thank goodness for that. Look at the end of the day a person can live what ever way they want they can knock themselves out a d to I hope they are happy. I'd never want to hurt a person's feelings or be mean regardless of how they identify . I don't believe the issue should be covered in schools. What are the positives that will come from teaching it to impressionable children?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 150 ✭✭AnnieinDundrum


    The proposal is for primary school, so aged 4+

    not all kids go to pre school, hopefully the teachers in te pre schools are educated to be able to handle it and the parents don’t make a scene when they do.

    i think at some point in primary school the topic should be addressed,

    the current court case illustrates how important it is to educate people to a certain basic level in matter such as this. A basic respect and awareness in his formative years might have helped avoid a messy situation. (possibly not I agree he’s a bit extreme)

    and it’s not countless hours, hours can be counted. It won’t be very many. Currently many primary schools spend many hours teaching about a deity and his followers. Other schools teach about different deities. There’s scope to flex that a wee bit I’m sure. 30 minutes in each year is only 4 hours overall, although I’d think about 2-3 hours a year would be better for the puberty age kids as they tend to like talking



This discussion has been closed.
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