Role for Irish Defence Forces in Ukraine?

We are not at war with Russia. That is why we have no troops there.

if we sent a battalion of troops to assist and defend the Ukranians, they’d have to be armed, in a war zone, therefore, ‘at war’…

logistically it would cost millions….

There are no EU troops in the Ukraine. There won’t be any either.

if you are in the Irish military only to get told… “ ok, you are off to a war zone, in the Ukraine where about 14,000 Ukrainian military have died. “ I am in my **** “ would be the likely response….from 99.99% of men and women…correctly too. Why would you risk your life for The Ukraine and Ukrainians, we are doing more then enough for little enough genuine thanks, without seeing our loved ones head over 3000 kilometres away to risk their lives, some lose their lives into the bargain! 🤷‍♂️

Any politician here, who makes a call to override our neutrality, either publicly or covertly… risks putting their party back to the dark ages.

as it would be impossible to do it covertly due to the number of people who’d know….and that would be an immense breach of trust between that political entity and the Irish people… no,

@Strumms if you are in the Irish military only to get told… “ ok, you are off to a war zone, in the Ukraine where about 14,000 Ukrainian military have died. “ I am in my **** “ would be the likely response….from 99.99% of men and women…correctly too. Why would you risk your life for The Ukraine and Ukrainians.

Yet tens of thousands who have travelled to other war zones with the UN did so proudly .

I'd imagine the majority of soldiers who actually trained for the moment of seeing real combat would More than likely jump at the chance to see real combat experience in Ukraine or elsewhere,

And since when is the defense forces a democratic system, right lads and girls we had duties do you want to vote which one's you do and don't want to to .

They are trained first and foremost to fight and kill ,

They get orders and they follow them

Unfortunately the Ukraine has lost a lot more than 14k. Nearly 100k lost on both sides is what most observers think.

The Ukraine's are weakening the Russian military with very little help from us and the West. Do you think that Putin would honour our "neutrality"? Especially when we aren't really neutral, as we can't defend ourselves, and putting long range missiles on our Island will make US resupply of Europe difficult.

Pretty sure there was official mention of the ordnance corps training Ukrainian soldiers in bomb disposal. Realistically I think that's as far as we can go to help militarily, and it's not nothing.

I said they were going to invade and I've been saying it for the last 9 years.

Do you honestly think that there are no foreign troops inside Ukraine

The only way foreign armies can be of direct help, apart from sending gear, is to accept Ukrainian troops for training in their own Countries; Poland, Germany, Britain and so on.

Its widely acknowledged that the Irish Army has a particular set of skills with regard to mine clearance and EOD and perhaps we can assist Ukraine in that regard down the line, but thats ostensibly a post-conflict role.

In the meantime, there is no possibility of any formal role for the militaries of any third party nation inside Ukraine.

Thats not to say they aren't there anyway, but Ireland will not be among them.

Then don't advocate for people to go and put their lives on the line when you yourself are unwilling.

Ireland has never been on the ground in a war anything the likes of Ukraine. Two modern armies going at it hammer and tongs with the most lethal equipment ever envisaged. Not some lads that got 1 RPG and 3 AKs between them in an unstable region.

Id recommend you check out a reddit called r/combatfootage to see what the day to day on the ground looks like there, id not want a single citizen of this nation within 1000km of that in any capacity.

Finally we are a neutral nation, our forefathers fought for us to have that privilege, individuals, leaders and especially sitting ministers should not be so quick to want to change this to look good in front of the UN/Nato/EU.

There is no such thing as a frontline in this type of warfare though. The reality is if you put Irish boots on the ground in Ukraine your putting them at tremendous risk.

Thats very naive.

Politicians and diplomats have a defined role with defined protections internationally.

Soldiers are quite simply a legitimate target in a warzone, no matter who they belong to. And if they are caught in civilian clothes, its actually far worse for them. Lets just say that getting put up against the wall and shot would be the best scenario.

Can we just drop this, its a nonsensical argument and something that simply shall not happen.

A non-starter for military as it would not fit the UN peace-keeping or enforcement ops we get/are involved in. Military Pers would likely be pulled out immediately a Russian [or other] firing-close incident occurred causing a risk of fatalities. Maybe as civilians providing assistance on the ground through a UN quango.

Politics and diplomacy aside, if you or your family can't reconcile with the fact that there is a very small but nonetheless recognised risk of getting wounded or killed on joining any Military, even the Irish DF, then don't join up.

This is the whole point. Its so far beyond a non-starter its daft.

When the War ends there'll probably be a bunch of UN mandated missions to de-militarise and EOD the regions where the fighting took place and in that Ireland can offer help, but in the meantime, any foreign military on Ukrainian soil are just an excuse for Russia to widen the conflict.

Post the end of this conflict- and it will come at some point - there could be a border monitoring / peacekeeping type role mandated via the UN etc. anyways we are a bit away from that just now …

Apart from the fact that training the combatants of a foreign nation who are active in a third party conflict, is pretty much as blatant a violation of neutrality as there is.

Rations, helmets, body armour, field medicine kits. Thats all we do. Thats all we can do.

Maybe when the war is over and Ukrainian sovereignty has been fully restored, the Irish DF could help deal with mines and unexploded munitions, Lord knows there'll be enough work there for whoever wants it. But thats a post-War conversation.

Unless the demining training takes place after a cease-fire or termination of Russian hostilities in Ukraine, its likely the demining will benefit both sides in the Russian/Ukrainian conflict so the involvement of Irish DF Pers in the training might be seen as a neutral act. It all depends on whether the person looking at the work being done has, or has not, got an aggressive attitude to foreign army personnel doing such work on the ground where conflict is ongoing.

I'm reading the book by Karina Molloy about her experiences serving with the Irish DF. On one of her trips overseas serving with multinational forces, the engineer unit deployed for road, IED and mine-clearance was Ukrainian so it seems they do have experience enough in the art of safely disposing of Ordnance.

I see there some mention in those leaked documents of various nations Special Forces operating in Ukraine.

On the flip side some countries keeping it all at arm's length.