Signs you are dealing with a 'Rooter'

God help us, ain't he a pity, 140 cows and 100 acres of tillage land. The poor fellow and he's expected to take over that. I took over twenty cows and two round feeders and a pipeline stall. We will nearly have to take up a collection for that poor guy. The value of the property alone is like winning the lottery

I don’t think ye are seeing the point @Grueller is making. The son is in an €80k per year job and can retire in 16 years time with €49k per year of a pension.

Why would he leave that to go through the rest of his life killing himself mucking around the yard like his father is doing for at best similar money but without the pension at the end? If he wants to take over the farm and make life simpler to do it then €500k is probably a reasonable estimate of what is needed. He will then put his earnings into paying that back for the next 10-15 years so will have a much smaller salary himself and still nowhere near the pension available to him now and will have nowhere near the same lifestyle and time off with family etc. that’s available to him now.

@older by the day like yourself I inherited not much more than round feeders and a handful of stock and built it up from there myself. There’s nothing I’m happier at than farming so I was always going to go that road but financially if I had the other option available to me that this man has I would have been an idiot to turn my back on it to stay farming.

The moral I take from @Grueller story, as a non dairy farmer, is for all the money the rest of us are being told the dairy men are making, there’s none of it being made without hard work and major investment in the first place. If a lad is in his 20’s getting the farm he has time to make that investment, work hard, pay it off and still should have plenty of years to build up a retirement pot from it and enjoy his farming. For a lad in his 40’s, if he’s to make that commitment then he’s due to retire by the time the hard work is done and he has it paid for so will never get them relatively debt free years to enjoy what he does and build up his retirement pot. He’s also not going to be as fit and hardy as he would have been in his 20’s and 30’s to put the hard hours in so it will take more of a toll on his health.

I personally think that man would be an idiot to leave his job to go back to the type of messing his father is at.

The father has questions to answer too, if he has made enough of money to build up a property portfolio he could easily have handed over the reins to the farm 10 years ago when his sons were early 30’s. I would see him as either an idiot, or plain and simple greedy, for not handing it over sooner. Why wait until his sons have good off farm jobs and live’s established before looking for one of them to drop all that and farm. In my eyes the 3 sons would be better off away from the father and let him kill himself at it or do what he likes with it.

As farmers we all worry and complain about the age profile of farmers as it’s getting older every year but if lads are going to wait until the next generation are in their 40’s before giving them control then what do we expect.

The farm probably has a turnover of 750k per year. Plenty capacity there for investment straight away and make the job easier while still having a good income.

Made clear to him that the investment properties are split between the other 2 brothers.

DBK1 has hit the nail on the head with my point. Why take on the hardship when his life is set so well already. If the father had offered him this chance 10 yrs ago he would have took hand and all. He is just too far down the other path to leave 20 years work and promotions and a pension to start all over again.

By the way I am not criticising the father. He is a phenomenal man to have built what he has built. Made of iron and the mother equally so. They are not falling out over it at all and the son nor father have no I'll will toward each other. I just see it as an example of poor planning on succession more than anything.

Edit: The father is not a rooter by the way. Far from it, but he can see no harm in spending 12-14 hours every day working. Great cows, great land, well fenced but couldn't see a return on investment in the yard. In my opinion only that's a large part of the reason the son doesn't want to go home. He still does 3 milkings every weekend though and takes 3 weeks holidays during calving. . . . .

@DBK1 I get what you are saying. It reminds me of a situation I am aware of, I lad near here a few years back decided to set his farm out the minute he turned 65. He has two kids with good jobs and no interest in farming. Between selling the cows and machinery and a few other bits he ended up with €320,000 which he bought a house in Drumcondra in Dublin with. Local big dairy farmers son rented the place on a long term lease and according to accounts has spend over €400,000 on stock and improving the place with new roads and fences. The farm owner has sold the house in Drumcondra and made over a €120,000 on it he has now reinvested in 2 apartments near Dundrum, returning him almost €5,000 a month in rent. I was taking to a lad that know both well and he was saying if it was that easy for the young lad to raise the €400K he would have been better off buying the house, less work, probably similar level of income at the end of the month and far less worries. But some people are so bound to the land they cant see any other option.

Some interesting comments or takes on the situation described above.

Anyone getting the chance to inherit a farm is in an extremely favourable position to the majority of people in Ireland at the moment. I grew up in a cottage with an acre of land but always had a keen interest in farming since a child. Now have 13 acres of our own (Albeit mortgaged) & have 20 acres leased. My plan is to keep tipping at work as my main focus and farm part time and hopefully buy more land as and when i can. If i was in the person aboves shoes with that sort of land at my disposal i think i would be looking at going full time though.

We were talking about this yesterday, local farmer, big farm, good set up. Son at home with him but gets no say at all. Father's way or no way. Only a matter of time before the son leaves. He already is under alot of mental pressure and imo would be better off a million miles away from the place

I think though if you're in that situation you need to move on, lease out the place and or whatever. No point killing yourself working into your 80s. I often say it to my young lad are you sure this is what you want.

You'd swear it was a burden, given land rental prices and what rental income you'll get from a well set-up dairy unit to lease, should it not be seen as fair enough the kids have went down other avenues and it will leave said farmer with a great pension whenever they decide to retire, I'm 35 now 3 kids aged 1-5, if none of them show a interest ill be leasing the place before I hit 60 lifes to short

yeah i see the same around me, i said it before theres definitley a huge differeence in the culture of the youth locally here than further down the country towards farming, i see huge interest by young lads and girls in midlands/border areas, not half as much in east. I have only one farm mearning me being farmed the rest are set out. id say at rough estimate totalling around 600 acres. I was thinking of buying a bit myself as an investment soon, i dont think i would bother farming it for a while but set it out on 5 year lease to spuds or carrot men? dont you get first 40k on leased land tax free? if i were to buy an apartment and rent it out the monthly rent will be taxed? i work off farm so would end up giving taxman a hefty amount each year. is thier anyone here who has bought land and rented out to get the value of this tax free rental income?

I know a fella looking for 200 acres to lease

I said it on a thread here a few months back, if any one of us on here was to stand in his yard and go around in a circle and name out all the farmers joining them, the vast majority don’t have an heir to the throne.

Land is making crazy money around here, any block of land that comes up for lease is easily making €600 per acre now. I know a couple of men who are leasing a bit for a few years with the intention of selling then. One man told me he wants to sell first when it’s still worth money as in 20 years time there’ll be that much land for sale around him due to no successors that it’ll be worth nothing.

It’s probably too late for a lot of us posting here but davidk if you’re in your 20’s now you could have great opportunity before your 40’s to buy land at a reasonable price.

No sorry funkey. Married, two children.

Mod snip

I want to protect the individuals identity.

G.

For years it's been said land will get cheaper with all the ageing farmers but I can't see the price dropping much anywhere that's suitable for tillage or dairy. A few hundred acres more with the gear the big tillage lads have now is nothing and nearly every dairy farmer could do with more land

Sorry - must have got muddled with some other posts.