To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

This is also the reason why the health service will keep lurching from one crisis to another .

INMO are just highlighting the fact that the government appear to have washed their hands of trying to make a real difference, just pawning it off till the next emergency situation with the Healthservice.

Suggesting a mask mandate is certainly an attention grabber .

Throughout Covid, everyone always mentioned how the Chinese wear masks when they feel unwell an this makes a big difference.

How's the mask wearing going for the Chinese?

Government has no real say in how the HSE works day to day and the government hasn't got the authority to go in and fire people.

The government will provide the funds, but how it is used is down to the boards etc of the hospitals which the INMO does interact with.

If the INMO are not happy with the boards on how the money is spent, they need to start naming and shaming the boards, this will force action.

But at the moment the INMO likes to talk alot but do nothing as they don't want to take the hand away that feeds them!!!!

Masks are not mandatory on wards though, was in visiting a friend last week, you had to wear them in the halls but not in the wards which is odd!!

Government doesn't run the hospitals, its the hospitals boards and mgmt. Bad mgmt are protected by these so call unions, they can't be let go when they under perform. Too many people in mgmt don't have the correct qualifications either, but thats the way the system works!

There is no accountability in the hospitals, so the staff at the very front line have to battle through.

Which demonstrates exactly what masks are ….. a visual theatrical prop

Based on what? you seem to have more insight than the experts around the world, do share your logic.

I think it's fair to say, on either side of the argument, that there are studies (clear scientific studies) that back up their view.

We have lived with this virus, we know people who have had it, more than once more often than not, we all have circle's of friends/family we know the impact of an infection.

When allowed to, the masses (as in the vast majority) of people have spoken...we saw it when the mandate was lifted last year. We saw it this winter...nobody is wearing them. Look around...if you aren't in a hospital/health setting (where they are expected) you will see at best 5% of people wearing them....given the level of conditioning we have all witnessed, there was always going to be people who can't stop wearing a mask, but the vast vast majority of us cannot be wrong.

That is not a "feeling", it is the reality that is staring you right in the face.

How much more evidence do you need, I mean, we all wear seat belts now because that was mandated, if that mandate was lifted do you think over 95% of us would stop wearing them?

I'm not arguing for (or against) a mask mandate, let the experts decide that one. I am arguing that the people who claim they are 'theater' are wrong. I firmly believe when worn properly they can reduce the risk of transmission. The fact that the majority are no longer wearing them in public because the mandate has been dropped does not disprove their efficacy. It just indicates that the potential risk has reduced sufficiently that mandates are not required. (I do kind of feel the risk level is creeping up though, if you got Covid today and needed hospital treatment, I am not sure you would be guaranteed to get treated given the state of the ICU's)

The risk is still very high in hospitals, probably why the mask mandate still applies in healthcare settings. That risk level is lower elsewhere so no mandate, this does not imply 'masks dont work', if they didn't work why have them in healthcare?

When you say 'how much more evidence do you need?', what are you referring to? evidence that people are not wearing masks broadly does not imply that mask wearing can't reduce transmission rates. People will do what they want to do, my issue is people presenting their incorrect opinions on mask efficacy.

If the seat belt mandate was lifted tomorrow the risk of being in a car crash would not change, so yes most would keep wearing. The risk from Covid has reduced due to vaccines, immunity, etc. the risk is not the same tomorrow as it was early on in Covid when masks were mandated. I believe that if we started to see large numbers of people dying or getting very sick (and no one wants to see that) then mask wearing rates would increase due to perceived risk, with or without a mandate.

You are claiming they are wrong because you "firmly believe" that masks work, you have indicated that there are clear scientific studies, which I don't doubt, but there are also clear scientific studies that indicate they don't work.

The mandate was lifted last winter in the middle of flu season, we all dropped them the very day the mandate was lifted.

We all know we are more vulnerable to covid and other viral infections at winter time so the risk of infection is much higher right now, the vast vast majority of us still aren't wearing masks.

You are refusing to accept that the public do not believe that masks offer any protection from viral infection.

If they did, the drop off last winter (when the mandate was lifted) would have been gradual, it wasn't, the day it was lifted the masks were gone! If the public did think masks work the percentage of people wearing them thru the winter would have been much higher, no one wants to get sick, it's why we wear jackets at wintertime.

The vast majority of us know or have figured out what offers protection from infection and what doesn't.

You are refusing to accept that the public do not believe that masks offer any protection from viral infection.

I am arguing that masks, when used properly, are effective at reducing the risk of viral transmission. And I disagree with the people on here that claim masks don't work.

What the general public believes is a whole other issue. I think they will usually do what they are told regardless of belief "you have to wear a mask now", " you dont have to wear a mask now". Neither changes the fact that masks are effective at reducing the risk of viral transmission. I don't think the publics beliefs should necessarily inform decisions that need to be made on a scientific basis.

masks stop the surgeons spit

It's very possible you haven't got a clue..

Why aren't the actions of the public not evidence, it's a real life case study right there. Do you see masks on kids? Are parents irresponsible? Nobody wants to get sick.

If we were seeing larger percentages of people wearing masks then I'd agree, that wouldn't be evidence of anything, but it is clear, beyond doubt, over 95% us don't bother with them, last winter (after the mandate was lifted) and this winter.

We know what works and what doesn't work. The lack of scientific consensus about how effective they are is something that should raise doubt, we know that seat belts save lives, we know to wrap up at wintertime. We know masks do nothing. The problem with masks is IF they are effective, then they stop you building immunity to all the other pathogens in the air, but we know they don't.