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Roderic O’G: Transgender issues added to primary curriculum

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  • Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭Jackiebt


    No, I do not know what young adult means, that was one of my questions if you read again. Children leave school at 18 so not sure they mean 18-25.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,791 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    What world around them, primary school kids have no idea what a transgender person is.

    They are very unlikely to know a transgender person and maybe will never meet one.

    How is teaching them about transgender people teaching them about the world?

    They can learn about it when they are adults.

    I have no problem with the curriculum, I did not mention anything else on the curriculum.

    I am waiting for you to tell me a real benefit to kids and not some random rubbish about the world.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    They don’t. YA mean teenagers, despite the other posters attempts to pass it off as adult fiction.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,619 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    The kids will grow up and not spend their time ranting about transgenderism on the internet because they learned about it from a young age and aren't afraid of it. Kids who are transgender will be able to express themselves freely, the vast majority of kids who aren't transgender will treat those kids with respect and be less liable to bully or make fun of them for being different.

    I am waiting for you to tell me a real benefit to kids and not some random rubbish about the world.

    You have a warped idea about what kids learn in school and why they learn it. Your doubling down on the benefit despite it being explained multiple times in multiple ways betrays your own ignorance and inability to learn. As mentioned in the first post I replied to, the benefit of the doubt is now gone and you're spinning off into your usual shouty cocoon. Prove me wrong.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Subzero3


    100%, we had goths in our days. Not we have a different outlier in the class. Atleast the Goths copped on and starting wearing normal clothes when it came to getting a job ect. Its coming from the parents too, supporting this fad and causing hassle in schools.



  • Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭Jackiebt


    The Goths always had the best music lol..the ones in my class introduced me to some great bands.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,718 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack




  • Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Subzero3


    For sure. I remember 1 goth girl told us her mother dumped all her goth clothes in 3rd year, Tough love. Now you have parent's doing the opposite, buying boys dresses before they know what a boy or girl is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    100% before social media we had fads that went around, be it rockers, ravers, goths, skinheads going all the way back to the teddy boys and the mods etc. and their parents would think, ah they'll figure themselves out and grow out of it.

    Nowadays parents can't seem to say no, or stop, to kids. So if little Tommy decides one day that he's a girl, he's indulged. You can be whatever you want. Unfortunately this fad has horrific irreversible impacts on kids. Look at some of the videos of de-transitioners, it is absolutely horrifying, and I believe much like we look back at the Magdalene's etc nowadays, we'll look back at those who pushed for this and think of them as absolute monsters and wonder why we allowed it to happen.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,825 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    You just made all this up. You do not know a single parent in real life who has done this do you?



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,619 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Lots of parents bought the kids goth clothes back in the day (and grunge and metal and all the way back to whatever was popular at the time).



  • Registered Users Posts: 409 ✭✭Guess_Who




  • Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭Jackiebt


    When I was 8, 9 and 10 years old I wanted to be a Brazilian footballer and change my name to Jairzhino. Luckily I grew out of it before my parents moved to Brazil lol.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Very interesting how the suggestibility levels of children is hardly mentioned here. Children, in theory, can be thought to believe literally anything once it's coming from an authority, which teachers are. Some teachers, as we've seen in the states, will gladly abuse their power in the name of their ideology.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,825 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Children just like right wingers on the Internet can be made believe any auld shite.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,504 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Kids have eyes and can see other people who aren’t white , their parents can also point this out, their is no educational need to tell school kids about interracial marriage unless injecting identity politics into school tuition is someone’s goal?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,504 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    But it’s incredibly unusual to the point of being a statistical anomaly, you might as well teach kids about albinism if understanding of human differences are the only goal?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭Marty Bird


    FFS leave this shîte out, teach primary children how to feed themselves and look after their health and physical well-being would be more beneficial than this shîte.

    🌞6.02kWp⚡️3.01kWp South/East⚡️3.01kWp West



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,583 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Lets break this down a bit.

    What exactly should kids learn about transgenderism at the various ages in Primary School?

    Surely "Be Kind to Everyone" is the message or is there more than that that they NEED to know at various ages?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    I'm glad you agree. So maybe, just maybe, we should be very careful about what we put on the table, from a state education point of view at least. If a parent wants to teach their children, even indoctrinate their children, into anything, whether it be old religions or newfangled faiths, that's their right as a parent, but the right should stop with parents. Schools should have absolutely no right to indoctrinate children, it's not their place.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,233 ✭✭✭crusd


    I see the instinct to not talk about things and hide uncomfortable subjects from the young, leaving them ill equipped to deal with adolescence and adulthood, is alive and well in Ireland.

    There is no reality in which being less informed is an advantage over being more informed.


    The below is also completely bizarre

    Are you suggesting simply being told something exists will make a 12 year old want gender re-assignment?

    Are you suggesting teachers will be out to "convert" children?

    I think such statements say more about the instincts of the op to exert control over what people hear than anything else.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,233 ✭✭✭crusd


    Given that some people seem to think it is not even a parents responsibility to teach a child how to feed itself, it definitely highlights the need to provide appropriate information about the realities of life to school children.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,791 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Who is afraid of transgender people I have not said it or seen anyone say that so pass on quotes.

    What proof do you have kids being told what transgender is will lead to less bullying.

    Kids bully other kids for lots of reasons they are aware of, I don't see anyway this would reduce bullying.

    If anything I can see it leading to bullying.

    A child goes to school to learn, explain to me the benefit of a child who learns about this.

    What I would like you to prove me wrong is your stance on science.

    You spent years berating anybody who said anything you didn't agree with about Covid as not following science and anti vaxxers.

    Yet you want kids to learn about transgenderism which is not a scientific fact.

    So do you believe in science or just when it suits you?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,949 ✭✭✭circadian


    I'm curious as to what kind of content was delivered. It seems that those arguing with you have some sort of preconcieved notions as to what and how the topics were approached and maybe, just maybe, they'll have a better understanding and possibly be open to the idea that a general understanding is a good thing.

    I won't hold my breath, but sure, there's always hope.


    I, for one, support this. Especially as the kids will be heading to secondary school not long after and teenagers can be horrible, vindictive **** if allowed. I was educated in Catholic schools and in secondary school (late 90's, early 2000's) it was common for anyone who was gay to get bullied. What was worse was there would be teachers who would reinforce this behaviour, one of whom referred to a friend of mine as a "fag" with no repercussions whatsoever and completely protected under the guise of homosexuality being a sin. This wasn't that long ago, and I'm sure it was a few years before any meaningful change happened.

    I'm sure parents have the choice to opt out of these lessons and are well within their right to do so. If it means that there are a majority of kids heading to secondary school with a more open mind and understanding of others and different people then hopefully the stigma and bullying will fall away as they'll see it for what it is, a load of bullshit. Let people be people.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I see this thread is the usual car crash when it comes to discussing the existence of Trans individuals.

    Brain scans routinely show that trans peoples scans show up as their perceived gender, NOT the one assigned at birth. It's really very interesting. Have a read at the synopsis here: https://health.clevelandclinic.org/research-on-the-transgender-brain-what-you-should-know/ There's a lot of good links to read in there. This one I found very informative:

    https://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/ea/0056/ea0056s30.3



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,043 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Boards poster: Brain scans routinely show that trans peoples scans show up as their perceived gender,

    Doctor from supporting study linked: “Research in these areas is extremely limited, and more research needs to be done to find conclusive results,” Dr. Altinay notes.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yes....

    Because that's how scientists talk. You do understand why gravity and evolution are "theories", yes?


    I also note how you didn't include the full quote from the doctor, "“Research in these areas is extremely limited, and more research needs to be done to find conclusive results,” Dr. Altinay notes. “But we’re already seeing definite trends.”"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Why? Because I have a trans friend who's daughter is about to start school. They transitioned after their daughter was 2, so there's still photo's of them in their previous gender with their new baby. Even though it's a small number of people that are trans, I don't see what the problem is, should we not teach kids about Dodo's as they'll never see one? I have 1 trans friend, and 2 non-binary friends, and I am a cis straight male. They're out there, and as it becomes safer for people to present, we'll see the numbers rise.


    One other reason is that a lot of people don't think trans individuals are real, and I don't trust people on here who have such a huge issue with trans folk to teach their kids about them. Do you think there's posters here who will be treating my friend fairly here? I think they'll be getting the cold shoulder at a lot of kids birthday parties, unfortunately. Thankfully, there's enough of us to rally around and support them.


    I really don't understand your thinking at all. Somehow NOT teaching kids that trans people exist will somehow benefit kids learning? Am I getting your last point there?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,574 ✭✭✭jackboy


    So, does that mean that only two genders exist? and there is no such thing as gender fluid, or a gender spectrum? We still need clear definitions before we can assess if scientific studies prove or disprove something. You must first know what is being tested.



This discussion has been closed.
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