Russia - threadbanned users in OP

You express sympathy for young Russian men sent off to fight in Ukraine.

My point was slightly different, but it seems to have gone over several posters' heads. In any war, soldiers get killed, maimed, shell-shocked and wounded, and this is sad, but it is also a logical outcome of war.

What I took issue with was a poster (more than one actually) who rejoices in the death of soldiers. This is utterly sick; sort of understandable maybe if the soldiers are your immediate enemy perhaps, but on an Irish website I have to say I'm disgusted at people laughing at the death of individual soldiers in a conflict that we are not party to, and even if we are somehow involved and most of us despise Putin, there is no conflict between any individual Russian soldier and Ireland.

As John Donne wrote, "any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind". Given this, I'd be sympathetic to anyone who is conscripted into any army to fight their master's war.

Meanwhile in Russia any criticism of the offensive in Ukraine is punishable with jail time, while words such as "war" and "invasion" are banned.

When you spout nonsense of course multiple people are going to point it out.

Some only seem think "debate" means being permitted to post any old shite without challenge.

What do you think there is to debate exactly?? Russia are the definite aggressors here. Honourable nations are doing their best to help Ukraine defend itself. The Russian army is, as we know definitively, full of criminals, mercs and rapists. The Russian people are cold hearted especially the older generations and in the face of what's going on, they are generally cowards who are incapable of going against anything their dear leader stipulates.

As far as I'm concerned the Ukrainians couldn't kill enough of them......

If you wish for better consideration of ‘contrarian’ and/or ‘bothsiding’-type arguments in Russia/Ukraine debate, you may be in the wrong section of Boards, try the politics sub-forum, there’s a sister thread. You likely wouldn’t get any easier a ride there, insofar as debating on the merits is concerned, but you should have a little cushion of extra civility for that ride, relative to here. High standards of argumentation and evidence required, note.

Alternatively, of course, it may simply be that posters are not ganging up on you to suppress you, as such: you’re just sometimes, or oftentimes, on the wrong side of this particular debate, in terms of ethics, morality, equity and such, kinda like “bothsiding the SS and the Communist Army like it’s 1941 again”, and you just can’t see it.

All just friendly suggestions 🙂

Yes everyone has a secret chat going. Careful you’re not on the list!

Maybe people are acting on their own and are not impressed with those who support a regime who permits raping (children and adults), murdering, pillaging…. Maybe people have encountered the exact same BS lies they have been countered repeatedly and want to nip it in the bud rather than give the lies air.

If you want to come in here and repeat Putin's propaganda, okay, but like him, you are acting the victim when it's addressed and exposed.

It turns out Hungary is paying something like 10% more for their Russian gas than if they got it via the eu

Yes, I think most people understand your point. War can be brutal & people on all sides get killed and maimed. It's far outside the norms etc.

The sympathy boat sailed though when Russian forces rolled across the borders of Ukraine 10 months ago.

The death of these young Russian men and Ukrainian men, women and children may sicken us but there comes a point where you must accept what is the road to least evil.

And that is the reality, these Russian military are either killed and/or driven out or allowed to murder, conquer, rape and pillage.

What's your preference, which is worse??

Where have I attacked you or that other poster? I asked you a question which you are of course ignoring.

I hear the Russians follow that source too because they are compulsive liars and can’t get truthful reports back from the front lines.

There’s much, much sadder still.

From dying in a war as a forced conscript, to dying in a war as civilian collateral damage, all the way to infants killed still in their mother’s womb.

Which reminds me, that only one side in this conflict has been deliberately targeting hospitals and nurseries, with the casualties to match, and still does.

So, well, you have your ‘lines’. And other posters have theirs. I don’t fancy yours, much.

Then they run off saying "I wanted to debate!" without actually starting a debate. No proposal to discuss, e.g., "Russia was justified in its invasion of Ukraine, why or why not?" Or "Actions by Ukraine require international intervention, why or why not?"

Basic stuff. Just another self-professed 'contrarian' who is a legend in their own mind. And, way too lazy to look back on this thread to find out 1) Livuamaps has been mentioned here many times, at least 1 or 2 posters regularly read it and summarize the latest news 2) Talking about pre-invasion Ukraine wrt corruption by Yanukovych has been done to death here.

And complaining when some lame Putinbot who didn't understand what the .ie business meant is shown to be phony.

Sad, and predictable. I think this most recent one is just a 'useful idiot.' Vague memories of it showing up on the anti-vaxx threads, too, arguing the nonscientific 'contrarian' position, and losing the argument.

Yes, it's interesting alright.

Most of southern and eastern Ukraine was part of the Crimean Khanate for hundreds of years before the Russians conquered it in the 1700s, IIRC.

They repopulated the area, calling it New Russia, with anyone who would come, including a mishmash of Ukrainians, Cossacks, Germans, Russians and god knows who else. It was quite like what the US did as they expanded westwards in the 19th century, and much the same as how the Canadian prairies were settled by Europeans in the 1880s-1910.

There was a particulrly infamous case in the 19th century - the Circassians, who were 'white' Muslims that were ethnically cleansed from the area sotheast of the Sea of Azov and north of the Caucasus. Ironically, I've even seen claims that their lands are part of Ukraine, because many of the people who later colonised Circassia came from Ukraine.

And complaining when some lame Putinbot who didn't understand what the .ie business meant is shown to be phony.

All the Z-bots are out in force today!