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You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the right.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,385 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Nearly as bad as Northern Ireland at this stage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Worse. The UK can step in and run things to some degree in NI. No fallback in the US.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,859 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Btw if Harry Truman of the Democratic Party represents the "right-wing" as the leader of a capitalist military industrial complex, then presumably Hilary Clinton and Barack Obama are "right-wing" too - with their military interventions and drone-strikes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,385 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com




  • Registered Users Posts: 19,287 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH




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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Remind you again that the premise of this thread is incorrect?

    It's easy when the notion that countries such as North Korea and China are fascist is called out for being a complete fabrication because they have been for decades and remain today far left communist basket cases and that's before the fact that Russia's current behaviour is influenced by their Soviet past more than a casually assigned label of fascism handed to them by Western lefties is raised.

    But but but, the Republican party has some moderately unpleasant members, let's cower in fear of them while North Korea tests new missile technology and states its intentions of ramping up their nuclear arsenal.

    Back in reality the threats are coming from far right and far left extremism in some times equal and other times not so equal measure not just the right wing as stated in this thread.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Ok, so Poland wasn't invaded in a joint operation. The carving up of Eastern Europe wasn't agreed by the 3rd Reich and USSR.


    Like any relationship where both sides are so alike in manner and outlook and dysfunctionality the relationship was always going to break down and acrimoniously so, that is why it is so bitter.


    The Germans miscalculated in that they could hate but they didn't allow for the fact that the Communist system views its own people as just as low as their most fervent enemy, sacrificing them, degrading them, they had no qualm. The Germans just used hate and a superiority complex to drive them. The Soviets had an entire ideology and movement to fuel them and they showed their Nazi comrades how to perform a perfect savagery. That savagery, mass murder, has always been the hallmark of all Communist countries.


    That is probably Communism's greatest strength and why it endured for so long despite it's immense contradictions, it's ability to degrade humanity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    If you want to pretend Poland wasn't invaded in a joint operation that's on you.

    You are pretending that one of the biggest events in human history never happened, not a small thing like 9/11 or the Vietnam war but a conflict that went on for 5 years and killed nearly 1 in 30.

    I really don't know where to start.


    Maybe you should go to Poland sometime.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,859 ✭✭✭growleaves


    @Danzy 'Ok, so Poland wasn't invaded in a joint operation. The carving up of Eastern Europe wasn't agreed by the 3rd Reich and USSR.'

    No its just that your timeline and exact claim is mistaken, as Japan allied with Germany for a longer time than you realise.

    But yes Communists will ally with far-right regimes when it's expedient.

    Putin was a General in the KGB who now markets himself as an anti-Communist. Make of it what you will. Mussolini was an ex-socialist.

    Related: Venezuela are allowing the Chevron Corporation to pump oil in their country as part of a compromise 'deal' with the US.

    https://greekreporter.com/2022/11/28/usa-venezuela-oil-agreement-chevron/



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,727 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Maybe you should read posts before responding with hysterical drivel like this.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Post thanked, I over extended the time frame of the relationship.


    On the ground life in Fascist Germany and in Russia was much the same, the nature of the killing may have been more random in the Soviet Union, the economy was poorer and more brutal for workers but it was still a highly bureaucratic murder machine, in the end more effectively than it's Fascist twin.


    Both lead to the same outcome, both appeal to the same type of individual. Mussolini could transfer from Radical Socialism to Fascism because the line was so thin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Not even slightly incorrect. Your whataboutism is just that - the threat to western democracy today, is coming from the right. Arguably, it's here - the uptick in right-wing sponsored terrorism is real. The putative behavior of the 'Insurrection caucus' in the Republican party, all right wing. Russia is a right-wing kleptocracy, with strong backing of a very right-wing religious organizations.

    Likewise, the amusing side-discussion about WWII is just that, that was then. This thread's about the now, and really, the simple question is, if you had money to spend on preventing terrorism and threats internally in some place like Ireland, where would you spend it? Mointoring left wingers, or monitoring RuZZians and the RuZZian embassys, as well as the Irexit types?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    It is always worth pointing out that Communism is Fascism without the fashion sense and where all are equally subhuman.


    Anyone who wants a better world should fight Fascist and Communist, they both offer the same outcome, Middle class fanatics killing people, which is worse is only academic, the difference is academic, their shared commonality is not their joint ventures but industrialised extermination of people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    The thread isn't exclusively talking about threats to western democracy.

    Everything negative is identified as right wing by posters like you. Russia is led by people who were born and raised in the biggest and most destructive far left regime in history, many of these people are convinced Russia was better off during the soviet era and want to return to a similar system, they're even attempting to annex neighbouring countries like they did during the soviet era but according to you their fascists?

    Far left ideologies are just as negative as fsr right ideologies and routinely they end up mirroring each other in their actions, but in the over simplified opinions of modern Western lefties everything negative is right wing.

    Sorry but that's complete and utter nonsense.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    No, everything negative coming from the right wing, is identified here, and there's an uptick recently (well, more than recently, lets go back to the founding of the current Russian State.) So, there original state might've been a left-wing one. But heck, the Tsar's weren't, why not go back that far. And, again, it's back by a very right-wing religious organization. Further, so much of the recent violence from the right, is done in service to religious ideals - cf. the Charlie Hebdo massacre in Paris, or the Bataclan bombing, or the Jan 6 insurrection - all right wing.

    The point is, the right-wing used to be (at least in the US) the law-and-order group. Now, it's violence for the sake of violence, all spurred on by right-wing religious extremism.

    You're just laboring under some sort of massive victimhood thing - "I'm right wing, I must defend everything the right-wing does via whataboutery." Sorry, that's not how it works. Threats are threats. Pretending that the right-wing isn't condoning and encouraging it more than ever is just disingenuous.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,859 ✭✭✭growleaves


    @Igotadose 'Russia is a right-wing kleptocracy, with strong backing of a very right-wing religious organizations.'

    There was a puppet-church during the Soviet era too, and even a differently-flavoured left-wing or non-ideological regime might use the Russian Orthodox Church as its puppet because why not?

    I think your posts are hysterical.

    If Kevin McCarthy can't get the support of 20 Repubs that's tough. Why don't the Democrats vote for him themselves if his non-nomination is such a threat to democracy?



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    For the record, I'm not right wing, so all this stuff about victimhood based on that assumption is moot.

    You're just viewing everything through the wacky modern Western left wing lens, "the right" is to blame for everything which is nonsense, they are to blame for some things but the far left still exists and its just as destructive as the far right and your refusal to acknowledge that speaks to your own bias, you've picked a side, reasonable people are on neither side.

    Glazers Out!



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,290 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    A number of uncivil posts deleted

    No more warnings - straight threadbans for anyone engaging in a less than civil manner

    Please do not whinge when it happens as you all should know better



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,287 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    You know damn well that the Germans and Russians were not on cordial terms as long as the Germans were allies with Japan. You also know that the Ribbentrop/Molotov non-aggression pact only lasted from 1939 to 41 and was more to do with Hitler's move to divide West and East from their potential entente. Whereas the Germans were allies with Japan in one form or another since 1936 until the end of the war.

    The only thing you are achieving by repeatedly posting this nonsense is that A. You're showing that you haven't a clue what you're talking about, or B. you're just an out and out liar who's intent on spreading disinformation.

    Neither is a good look.

    Post edited by Tony EH on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭lmao10


    Most of the people on the left will admit they are on the left. Most of the people on the right, particularly the far right, will do everything possible to be disingenuous and try to present themselves as being moderate. If you haven't noticed this then I don't know what to tell you.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    We know that they agreed to divide up Poland and marched to an agreed boundary that they had determined, approximately the bug river.


    We know that the Soviet Union handed over hundreds of German and Austrian Communists, nevermind all the others, who had fallen out with the Reich, it didn't end well for them but the Russian Communists would have killed them eventually.


    We know that while not as advanced as the German Army that the Polish forces were one of the largest armies in Europe and were fighting with dogged determination and had forced Germany to pull back in Warsaw and in the south. There were 750k Polish forces and while the National Socialist forces were blitzkrieging facing that many men would be time consuming and costly. As it was 1/3 of German tanks were destroyed in the first 2 weeks, Soviet solidarity saved the Reich.


    In line with their agreement and in solidarity Russia sent 800k men West and forced the Polish to split forces, saving Germany lives and equipment.


    350k Poles were shipped to Siberia.

    Priests, writers, Jewish leaders, police, public workers, trade unionists,teachers etc etc were especially targeted and summarily shot by the NKVD. Out of the 100k that were formally arrested early on, 25% were Jewish, completely overrepresented but not unexpected from the Communists, solidarity once more.


    People like the leadership of the Jewish Socialist Bund were arrested and eventually shot, they were considered as having views about the 3rd Reich that were not co-operative and like everyone else they were suspect for numerous other reasons.


    25k Polish officers, many of whom had fled East from the German assault were recommended for liquidation by Beria, if they fought the Comrades from Berlin they were just as likely to fight the Comrades from Moscow.


    The Soviet forces were instrumental in ensuring that German forces did not get bogged down in a war of attrition against the massive polish forces, even poorly equipped but eager soldiers can inflict savage losses.


    There was repeated solidarity and joint operations between them on the demarcation line in tracking down and extermination of Polish Partizans, class enemies and Jews.

    We won't even go into the multiple joint Gestapo and NKVD conferences on dealing with problems in Poland, the typical solidarity was applied.

    While shared values and outlooks brought the Communists and Fascists together and both practiced genocide in Poland and elsewhere, a breakdown in the relationship was inevitable, thankfully at great cost to the armies of both.

    After the war ended tens of thousands of those who fought the Nazis were persecuted, jailed disappeared by the Communists, because if they fought the one time Comrades from the Berlin once they might fight the Comrades from Moscow.

    Do you condemn the Nazi and Soviet campaign in Poland and the lethal consequences that saw 1 in 5 Polish die, no equivocation please.

    It was wrong, the mass killings were wrong, forget it we'll agree to disagree and move on.

    Post edited by Danzy on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,088 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I think in the present day in America the fringe right wing is more influential then the fringe left wing. That can be seen by fringe right wing figures dining with Trump possibly the next president at his golf resort, the fringe right of the republican party flexing their muscles today and the open admiration by right wing figures Trump and Tucker Carlson for the fascist Putin and his actions in Ukraine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Well if we are talking about Ireland specifically. Left wing extremists have killed many more people in Ireland than any on the right.

    To the best of my knowledge only a socialist political party maintains an armed wing.

    If I had to predict emerging terrorist threats over the next 10 years I would be concerned about eco terrorism from nihilistic youth fed on a diet of doom.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Much depends on definitions on far right, right, left and far left. I think it’s fair to say these definitions are shifting rapidly in less than a generation.

    Not that long ago, the notion of a US President giving free money to people during a pandemic would have been considered socialist. Now that President is considered by many to be far right.

    Powerful multi billion corporations are usually seen as conservative but some have convinced the public that they are left wing.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    I'm sure you're citing reputable research when you make that statement, because if you're (as I'm going to go ahead an assume you are) pulling this out of thin air I'm going to go ahead and treat it with the contempt it deserves.

    Yet more "my side are virtuous while the other side will do or say anything" type drivel. Tiresome in the extreme.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Again Fascist Putin. Sorry but this is lazy BS.

    Fascism in point of fact is a revolutionary movement that dismantles the existing order of a country and rebuilds it in a new radical image.

    That is not what Russia is, Russia under Putin is acting in a blend of historically Russian ways, a cult of personality built around an autocratic leader looking to resurrect an idealised version of what they perceive historical Russia to be.

    This happened under the Tzars and it informed the expansionist attitude of Soviet Russia. It's hard wired into the Russian psyche and its being played out by a leader and an inner circle of men who pine for the glory days of the USSR.

    Putin is a lot of things, none of them good but he doesn't meet the particular criteria required to be accurately labelled a fascist.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,287 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Irrespective of the dump you've just spewed out there, you have tried repeatedly to spread an untruth about Nazi/Soviet relations between 1939 and 1941 and you've been corrected numerous times about it, by me and others who know what they're talking about.

    Germany and Russia were not "allies" longer than they were enemies and they were not "allies" longer than Germany was allied with Japan either.

    Quit your lies. Nobody is falling for them.

    Post edited by Tony EH on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,088 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    A fascist is someone who supports or promotes fascism—a system of government led by a dictator who typically rules by forcefully and often violently suppressing opposition and criticism, controlling all industry and commerce, and promoting nationalism and often racism.

    That is the dictionary definitiopn of a fascist. I see all those things in Putins Russia maybe you don't? Are you going to say he is not right wing now or is left wing? I'm not sure why you pick out one word in my post since it still doesnt make the Fringe Right Wing commentators support for him , or their hatred for Zelensky, look any better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭lmao10


    "Reputable research", lol. Reminds me of the guy on here who was asking for evidence to prove a claim while not having any evidence to disprove the claim and thinking he just hit a home run in the argument. lmao. I must have missed the peer reviewed studies you posted to back up your claims in this thread.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    So your opinion trumps everyone else's?

    Of course it does.

    Glazers Out!



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