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Roderic O’G: Transgender issues added to primary curriculum

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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,716 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    This has been what a lot of it is coming down to, that knowing something will somehow cause people to change rather than people being more comfortable to discuss these out loud vs. keeping it bottled up and telling no one.

    In the example supplied, there should be uproar that we tell children that people with webbed feed exist, it's an even smaller % of the population than trans and then what is the measured benefit of telling children that webbed feet can exist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Told who they are? Do you not understand how that sounds to people? Told. Essentially meaning that you'll decide for them.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Oh, but what if they got a brain transplant from a girl?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yep, I think its a bad thing.

    Trans and homosexuality are not something you can teach, it is something someone should be allowed to decide on as they grow, mature, and develop into adults.

    This is just forcing your ideology and beliefs onto innocent children who are vulnerable.

    Nothing wrong with teaching Sex Education so children can understand the changes their bodies will go through as they start puberty, but telling a male that he can be female and experience periods is just ridiculous.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Children do not need to be told who they are, they learn, grow and develop into who they become, not because some adults told them its ok to be a female if they are born male and introduced them to it.


    Stop forcing your ideology on children.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 41,072 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra



    Yes that makes sense that children grow, learn and develop but then are you not the one forcing an ideology onto them that trans people shouldnt be discussed and trans children dont exist?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,061 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    I suppose the real issue here is, what the benefit of this proposal?

    We already have a huge amount of social acceptance of trans issues to the point where being critical or hurtful towards a trans person will likely result in a person being ostracised by the majority of people.

    Does sitting primary school children down to explain the mechanics of transgenderism improve the quality of life of trans people beyond what it currently is in any demonstrable fashion?

    I think it's possible to be opposed to this proposal without being ardently against trans people or their rights.

    We have exceeded social acceptance of trans issues and we are entering a situation where an over saturation of trans issues may well end up having a regressive impact that undoes progress that has been made.

    There has to be respect given to trans people but that respect also has to be extended to people who feel their children may not be mature enough in primary level education to learn about trans issues.

    You can't bludgeon people over the head with these things and expect universally positive responses.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,072 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Of course you can teach about LGBT issues. We have had teachers here explain exactly how they have done that. You seem to be under some sort of odd impression that teaching that LGBT people exist is aimed at turning children gay or trans.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,716 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Parents can already opt their kids out of the sexual education, don't see why that still wouldn't apply.

    And I doubt the curriculum would bludgeon anyone over the head with details.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    If you are Trans you are Trans, if you are Gay you are gay, you do not need to be told that you are.

    Allowing children to discover their sexual identity naturally in their own time and in their own way is by far the best way to grow and develop.

    We live in a more tolerant and welcoming society, it's not going to harm any child if they decide when they are 16 or whatever age they want to change their sexuality to one they are more comfortable with. No need for this to be forced onto them in a classroom, allowing them to develop themselves into adulthood.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,818 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    Have you a link to a hard science peer reviewed study on this? Genuinely interested to know.

    https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/448787

    A structural magnetic resonance imaging study in transgender persons on cross-sex hormone therapy

    "Gender identity and gender incongruence could not be reliably identified (all pFDR > 0.05"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Secondary schools are forcing a lot of this onto kids without parental knowledge or permission, it's dressed up as social skills, or anti-bullying but it's more about being trans and gay.


    You need only look at all the Pro-EU propaganda flowing around in secondary schools, has nothing to do with a child's development or education but about indoctrinating.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Fair play for being honest.

    I find your views completely abbhorent and they belong in the past. Trans and homosexuality are not something you can teach, however, you can inform people that if they are, that that is ok.

    The huge irony here of course is that YOU are forcing your cis ideology and beliefs onto innocent children. How many times have you heard gay people in the past thought there was something wrong with them for being attracted to the same sex because it wasn't something they knew about. Imagine how a trans person feels?

    I do wish this was a separate topic from sex ed as they are very different subjects.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,504 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    This is precisely the type of vitriol and insulting language I mentioned earlier.

    It is imperative that adults research the cost of Gender Affirming Surgery as we will/are going to see a surge in demand over the coming years. By cost I mean the financial cost and the lifelong consequences for the individual and their families.

    Listen to Pediatricians, I would recommend one who is in favour of Gender Affirming Care and one who isn't...see which one you believe to be credible.

    Do not be bullied out of whatever opinion you form!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,806 ✭✭✭buried


    Be careful what you wish for, LGBT issues were never taught to me back in primary school, that didn't stop me or the vast majority of the adult voting population into voting for adult homosexual people to be finally allowed to get married in this state.

    On the other hand, maths was taught to me in primary school and I unfortunately detest the subject.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How far though do you want this to go though,

    Would you be happy to inform children that some Transgenders go on to suffer mental illness more proportionately than a straight or gay person, would you be happy to show them evidence that many who are transgender later regret doing so and in some cases commit suicide?

    It's not an open and shut case, it is in my view something that should remain private and certainly not taught to children until they are emotionally and socially ready for such things.

    I'm not forcing cis on anyone, its a perfectly natural thing for children to experience puberty and as such, they need to be informed about what puberty actually is and why their bodies are changing as it affects all children.

    Puberty for children is a confusing and emotional time, its important to inform a child why their body is changing, its not important however to tell a child they can be any sex or gender they so wish as it will have no real meaning for them at such an early age.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Could you report this post for insulting language? Maybe someone else could point it out to me.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No, you are forcing hetero-cis learnings on people (children) if you don't admit gay and trans people exist, and only straight people do.

    This is not difficult. Many trans people know from a young age. Many gay people know from a young age. How long should they be made to feel abnormal to suit your hetero-cis agenda? Until they're 12? 16? 21?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭crusd


    Unusual does not equal not normal and because something is unusual does not mean it should be hidden and ignored



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Do all children experience puberty? -Yes That is not forcing anything other than informing them of why their body is experiencing changes.

    Do all children need to know about Transgender? - No, there is no benefit to teaching the majority of straight children about transgender issues. Even for trasnsgender.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    Why not put on classes or information evenings where parents and kids can go and learn together. Why do kids have to opt out of this. Why don't people who are interested in this opt in and go to them outside of school hours?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,504 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Calling someone else's view as "completely abhorrent" is unnecessary and insulting and accusing someone of forcing their views on children is classic manipulation. People who's opinion it is that children should be left alone in the classrooms from an ideology are not forcing their views on others full stop.

    I won't report your post, as the mods on here have enough on their hands, as a mod, I thought you'd know better than most.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭crusd


    That you believe discussing differences is “sexualisation of children” denotes a seriously warped sense of sexuality



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As a mod, we take reports seriously.

    How many times have I been accused of forcing my views on children?

    And yeah, treating gay people and trans people as unequal is abhorrent.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Why would any 12, 16 or 21-year-old feel abnormal for being Gay or Trans?

    Society has thankfully moved on and there is no reason for anyone to feel abnormal, all of these things are perhaps more promoted than being straight these days.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭crusd


    How does discussion of an individual’s identity equal to discussing sex?

    Ye are seriously confused. Most have you must have conducted your research into transsexuals on pornhub



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Why are you talking about puberty? I do not get the fixation myself.

    Sex Ed is sex Ed, biology is biology.

    I assume you have no problem with primary school kids reading Sleeping Beauty?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,504 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    More manipulation.

    Nobody is suggesting treating gay people and trans people as unequal.

    If schools want to teach this to their kids let them do it after class, and if parents are happy to send their child they can.

    I would suggest to anyone reading this thread, as clearly this is an emotive issue for some, that whatever your view, do not allow yourself to be bullied or manipulated, this issue is a massive issue for our culture on account of the effect on our health system, let alone our children.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Because the only reason Sex Ed Classes are provided in school is to assist in helping children understand why their bodies are going through changes due to puberty.

    Is sleeping beauty not banned these days because of a man forcing himself upon a woman without consent?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No child is aware of their identity from an early age, why are you afraid to allow children to develop and grow naturally?



This discussion has been closed.
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