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A global recession is on the horizon - please read OP for mod warning

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,623 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Mortgage lending down 40% over the year in Germany


    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭farmingquestion


    Saw this recently on facebook.

    This morning I've seen a carpernter advertise in the local group saying they're available for work in the evening.

    Anyone in the industry care to comment on where construction is headed?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭fliball123


    There has to be a reckoning with prices or else construction workers will have to face either emigrating or hitting the dole queue. People simply have not got the money to pay for the eye watering amounts being asked for.



  • Registered Users Posts: 493 ✭✭Shauna677


    5000 people employed with them.in ireland, hope the numbers losing their jobs will be kept low here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,870 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I used to listen to a good bit of talk radio but stopped about fifteen years ago and don't miss it one bit. Once you realise it's all about trying to enrage people there's no going back.

    The Dublin Airport cap is damaging the economy of Ireland as a whole, and must be scrapped forthwith.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,099 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    I think this recession will be a return to pre pandemic economic levels, house prices will take a little bit longer to correct.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,989 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Looking at that graph it's a clear market correction. The pandemic and income supports bloated the economy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 398 ✭✭jimmybobbyschweiz


    Solely going back to pre COVID levels is all that is happening. Necessary and not a big deal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,048 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    necessary but it is a big deal. Going back to 2019 would be very welcome for most people, however for many others it will be a very painful correction.

    Asset price corrections, and tech job losses will be very painful in the short term for a lot of people. The big question, particularly re: assets, is will governments attempt to bail out people/companies who bet big and lost big during this correction?



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,989 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Yes, and I think it looks like - especially in that graph - it's more like 2014-15 levels that are being returned to.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,623 ✭✭✭brickster69


    I think it mentions 2011 on the graph. Probably a decade of low interest rates gave the property market some extra steam in most European countries. You would think first time buyers, people who may have to increase borrowing and buy to let investors may be taking a wait and see approach for a while to see how things go. That is quite a big part of the market when you think about it.

    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,148 ✭✭✭screamer


    Construction is still busy, especially in the desirable segments in preferred locations. To be honest a bit of cooling will do no harm, but I don’t see much more than that. Fact is demand is there, and the workforce is declining and aging as youngsters don’t want to work hard, regardless of the eye watering wages. The industry is far more stable and sustainable now and I don’t see much change longer term.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,099 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    QE, bailouts and all that free money printed has created this demand, a natural correction to pre pandemic levels is necessary, no economy in the world can reach the current demand. While there will be job losses most will be happy to welcome back some stability.

    And your 2nd point, they shouldn't, if the government keep intervening we will never get out of this inflation. Things need to go naturally now



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭fliball123



    Not seeing it here construction company who quoted me last year in April was back on twice asking to do the job once in October and just before xmas asking if I wanted to go ahead with a 10% less cost in Oct and in December 12% less the price in April. He said its been the quietest for years and the CPI , PMI and construction outputs for the country and the Eurozone back that up. It also looks globally like most commodities are falling.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2023/01/05/euro-zones-construction-sector-in-worst-decline-since-start-of-pandemic/



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,148 ✭✭✭screamer


    Private work is not a preferred sector for our business. As I said you may see drops but not in preferred sectors in prime locations. We are out the doors with work and with requests for new work. There is some cooling, slight cooling. It’s still far far from a recession or a bust in construction, just a slight correction. Plus January is always the hungry month for construction so one contractor looking for a job is not a big indicator in the scheme of things.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,623 ✭✭✭brickster69


    France is in a bit of a catch 22 after all these 2022 energy supports now. Prior to the elections they capped the price of energy for the year which probably is the main reason for it's low inflation.

    For consumers it is still in place but gone up 15% but the business rate has been cancelled altogether. Already the bakers are up in arms and looks like the government is giving out new aid to them already. You would imagine it may just be a matter of time before the other businesses start asking why they are not getting the same support as well.


    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭fliball123


    If you look at the link construction is at its lowest since pre pandemic and that is across the Eurozone. This is not a normal January this is the start of people no longer having the finances to pay for things that are not worth it.. The vast majority of people looking for thing like extensions can not afford the very high price increase over the last 12 months or so in a lot of cases your talking 30/40% dependent on the gouging. Peoples wage have not gone up anywhere near that in this timeframe. Throw in interest rate hikes and a lot of peoples dream of the new kitchen or bathroom or extension is no longer possible due to loans they would/could have got costing a hell of a lot more. Irelands PMI is out on Monday already its below 50 at 46.8 for October lets see if there is further contraction in construction in December and then of course as you said Jan is normally a lean month for everything not just construction. It doesn't bode well for anyone working in the industry, they had better hope the vast majority of building materials keep falling and of course make sure they pass the savings on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,325 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    More like back to 2010 levels if that graph is correct. So a fairly big deal for house prices id say.



  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    Collapsing tech share prices will begin contagion.

    Examples include

    Microsofts Azure has been downgraded.

    Amazon has been downgraded.

    Also

    Our place capital predicts " 2023 will be worst year in decades for world economy"

    Ned Davis Research ( highly respected US think tank) predicts a 65% chance of a severe global downturn

    Fidelity ( one of world's largest money managers) says a hard landing for global economy is unavoidable

    ( The other hand podcast)



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    It's hard to see house prices fall much, a bit because affordability is no longer there but we have a Govt that are taking an ultra aggressive approach to stoking additional demand in a country with already massive pent up demand.


    No Govt will be able to meet that demand, the building industry will not be able to meet it.


    It's the biggest free market experiment in decades and it's labelled "loike solidority dude".



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  • Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭mike_cork


    Barclays in the same camp as Fidelity regarding their predictions for the year ahead

    "For instance, Barclays says 2023 will be one of the worst years for the world economy in four decades, and Fidelity believes a “hard landing” is unavoidable. "

    JP Morgan seems to think there will be a recession but a milder one




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,630 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    Our property market isn't anything close to a free market experiment, its incredibly regulated and is impacted by various government schemes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,623 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Blackrock's growth US projections accounting for the lag in 22's interest rate hikes.


    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,623 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Looking likely the Fed will carry on raising interest rates at least till the Spring.


    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭fliball123


    latest figures for inflation for December and Retail sales for November. It really paints a horrible picture to where we are going to be in 2023. Sales down year on year (-4.2) and month on month (-1.4) for November and inflation dropping by .3% in December. This will continue throughout 2023 with inflation going continuing to be negative and sales continuing to stall. It was clear to me anyway that in general people could not afford the price points that were being asked for in almost all goods and services in the country. So the lads arguing with me about construction still being awash with work well enjoy what ever you can get now as that cow has well and truly been milked and is only fit for slaughter. As I said construction PMI out on Monday lets see how construction is holding up.


    https://tradingeconomics.com/ireland/harmonised-inflation-rate-mom



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,919 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Government work or for private companies? If private that's a good sign for the future, government will squander until they can't! Paschal was saying that half the corpo tax this year is not bankable for the future (c 10 billion iirc) n only for it there would be a fair hole in finances.

    Have a lad pouring concrete today for me n a lad taking a machine away to do up. Two good operators that are reasonable n always snowed under. Both are quiet at the moment , if they are quiet I dunno how the rip off merchants are going!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,970 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    Started watching the Bernie Madoff documentary on Netflix last night. The parallels then with now are pretty scary. Issues with rising energy costs, tanking stock markets and rising inflation all precipitated the 2008 meltdown.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭Jonnyc135


    Inflation now is a lot higher now unfortunately



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,623 ✭✭✭brickster69


    US debt was $9 trillion in 2008 now it is $31 trillion. Crazy eh ?

    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,623 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Eurozone inflation falls to 9.2% in December. Energy inflation falls 14% MOM.


    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



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