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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    There's **** all votes to be won, journos to be pacified, or favours to be bought by spending on defence in this country,

    I'd imagine the defence forces are much like the gardai and every other government run service, so undermined by policy and nepotism that its only time servers and jobsworths that are left in the top tier. People who know what they're doing tend not to stick around in a **** show



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    With the new weaponry being provided by the US and others such as more agile and faster tanks, would this suggest that a lightening offensive is being planned in the spring/summer?



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,456 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,428 ✭✭✭macraignil


    "I believe you can least 10 aircraft+ 2 two seat trainers for around 700 million over 10 years with the ability to extend the lease or buy outright,and as more are built the cost per unit of falls ,"


    For that sort of money the Irish government could set up a good drone technology training, development and production centre. The russian invasion of Ukraine has demonstrated the day to day action on the modern battlefield is governed by drone technology and the piloted jet fighters are too expensive to risk near front line combat zones with improved anti aircraft missiles. Our airspace is surrounded by nations we are allied with so an investment of large sums of money in an enemy aircraft intercept capability would not be the best way to go in my opinion. Drone technology investment could see much more return for the country with even export markets and peace time applications of what might be developed possible.

    Post edited by macraignil on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,563 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    Temperatures have dropped considerably overnight in the east.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    The lack of self awareness in yer wan's video is surely a medical condition? Also says much about the Russian notions that they think they have support in non western places. Never mind that she's only in Mexico to try to get to the great satan itself America. If a Ukrainian spin doctor invented her you couldn't believe. Hell, if a Russian one did, you'd think they'd really outdone their own bullshít. And that's a high bar.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    A link please for these costs you are quoting, because what you are claiming seems absolute nonsense:

    "someone quoted 36 million for 16-18 Saab gripen jets ,and the development of a new purpose built modern air base"

    €36 million is slightly more than half the publicly available cost for one plane, not 17 of them plus an airfield. Building a modern airfield is likely to cost well over a billion, not millions, let alone some tiny fraction of €36m.

    You are not going to buy a modern air defence force for the cost of the windows in a modern childrens hospital.

    One of the few countries to equip with the JAS-39 Grippen is Brazil:

    The $4.7 billion contract signed in 2014 for the Gripen jets included not only the procurement cost of the first 36 aircraft but also a high degree of technology transfer and industrial investments for assembly and parts production in Brazil.

    Thats working out at €130.5m per plane. Your figures seem like pure fantasy.

    Get 6 F-16s and operate them out of Knock.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,305 ✭✭✭prunudo


    And not for the first time, we hear of retreats and Russian forces regaining control only for a counter attack and bang, the following day the Ukrainians are back in. The Russians are so desperate for gains, they're getting sucked in everytime.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Almost as bad as a significant number of Republican politicians in the US, not to mention Tucker Carlson and so on.


    Amazing what money can buy you



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    IMHO fighter jets(and tanks) for a nation like Ireland are a very very expensive PR stunt, but militarily damned near useless. We'd be outgunned in hours by any potential enemy/invader. Ukraine has/had a fair sized air force and where are they? Russia has a huge airforce and they're staying well out of contested airspace for the most part. Buy the stuff that made that happen.

    Ireland? Massively increase the army's budget. Buy and implement drones, anti air/tank/personnel weaponry. Make the Army reserve much bigger. Train more men and women in arms. Take a leaf from Michael Collins' book and create an insurgency force of sorts. Make it so any invader who does try anything can appear to take the nation very quickly, but make it hellishly expensive in lives to hold onto it. Kinda like how the Swiss operate, but fettled to the Irish situation.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ireland needs the ability to find out and challenge what's going on in it's airspace and sea area.

    Khordorkovsky attempted recently to say the war wasn't the fault of the russian people. I see enough evidence to call bullsh!t on his assertion. The problem with russia is the mentality of russians. Creatures like putrid are just symptoms, not the root cause.



  • Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭junkyarddog


    That's great news,apparently there are lots of tunnels there that the Ukrainians used to their advantage.

    The orcs advanced,the AFU in small cells would then attack from the rear,place mines,or sabotage the orcs equipment.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    The most we could do unless we threw countless billions over more than a decade at it would be to "challenge" an invader just before we got shot out of the sky. I'd increase our air fleet for watching our seas alright, more for illegal fishing and the like. As an offensive force, again total pie in the sky.

    Asymmetric insurgency wars are essentially unwinnable even for superpowers. Both the US and the Soviets and in the past the British and French found that out. Even if you do kinda win like the US in Afghanistan it's unimaginably expensive to do so and look what happened in the end? No fighter jets involved. TBH I think folks like the idea of fighter jets flying the flag overhead, but the reality is unless you're a superpower like the US with a bottomless wallet they're almost useless.

    My take is fight smart. Yes the US and likely the UK and othe EU forces would come to our aid with their air and sea powers and most of all intel, so accept that. Accept we're not a superpower or a particularly militaristic nation. However bolster that likely support with realities on the ground. More army, more insurgency, more anti air/tank/personnel kit. In essence "Do a Ukraine". A dozen HIMARS have done far more damage to Russia and not just in men and materiel, than one F16 could hope to do. Hell more than 20 F16's could likely do, and for a fraction of the costs, time and support systems.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Again depending variant and equipment on said aircraft,the Brazil deals involves license agreements to produce assembly in Brazil , it's really simple the Brazilian Gripens are the latest and larger Gripen E /F variants which is different to earlier model's A-C

    Get F16s lol.


    The Swedish JAS 39 Gripen, of variants C and D, is notorious for being one of the cheapest new 4 or 4.5 generation fighter jets around. Its cost could go as low as $30 million per piece, a bargain for such an advanced machine. 

    Its latest variants, the E and F, changed that. While they are still much cheaper to operate than 5th generation fighter jets, the cost of one such jet has more than doubled. An explanation of that lies in jets’ differences: almost everything, except for the airframe, got upgraded. New radar, engine, avionics, improved weapons systems – very little remained of the old Gripen. 

    In 2012, the new-generation JAS 39 was expected to cost over $100 million. It is only in the latest years that Saab managed to reduce the price, and with the reduction, the Gripen once again became a sought-after jet on the international market.


    https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/27553-top-10-most-expensive-fighter-jets-in-2021



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Bet some people didn't see that coming 🤣🤣🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,456 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    He did better than that:

    The order of Russian President Vladimir Putin to introduce the so-called "Christmas truce" published on the Kremlin's website refers to a ceasefire on the territory of Ukraine.


    Thus, the leader of the aggressor country acknowledged that hostilities were taking place in a neighboring state, and neglected pseudo-referendums held at gunpoint by Russian machine guns on the annexation of "new territories."


    As evidenced by a screenshot of the released document, Putin officially recognizes that the area along the collision line is part of Ukraine.




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,434 ✭✭✭jmreire


    The real immorality was when the US failed to uphold and defend Ukrainian Territory back in Feb 22 when the Ruzzians invaded , after promising to do so in return for Ukraine handing over its nuclear weapons.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,434 ✭✭✭jmreire


    You have to look at it from Khordorkovsky's point of view... I'd say that he may be planning a return to Russian politics in the great upheaval that's expected. So he cannot make the Russian people a scapegoat,,, that position is reserved for Putin and his minions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Mike3549


    And heres the tweet from mr know-it-all




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭briany


    If you're referring to the Budapest Memorandum, I see no clause which explicitly obligates the US to directly intervene on Ukraine's behalf if attacked by Russia.

    1. Respect the signatory's independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.
    2. Refrain from the threat or the use of force against the signatory.
    3. Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by the signatory of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.
    4. Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to the signatory if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".
    5. Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against the signatory.
    6. Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments

    The US has been providing much assistance to Ukraine, beginning from 2014 and increasing from there in terms of weapons and training, and this isn't even in the case of nuclear weapons being used, per clause 4. I have a feeling that some terms were left deliberately vague upon the original drafting as diplomats on either side would have been keen not write themselves into a corner over Ukraine. Zelenskyy has said that he's dubious over Western commitment to the Budapest Memorandum, but then his M.O. has always been maximum pressure, and if he thought that assistance meant direct intervention, I don't know if he really believes that or if it's a case of reach for the stars and grab the moon, similar to asking NATO to close the sky. He knew he wouldn't get that, probably, but he'd take everything short of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭rogber


    No doubt someone who'd rule the world in line with your ideas. Look forward to reading the manifesto



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,648 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The US was never going to go to war with Russia to protect Ukraine risking plunging all of Eastern Europe in to war and the use of nuclear weapons.

    Ukraine have been provided defensive equipment to protect themselves.

    That is all the west can do unfortunately.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    But we now know that Russia were a busted flush, oh we have thousands of tanks, aircraft and millions of men ,

    Now they have lost 60+ % of all of their tanks, large numbers of aircraft and other vehicles destroyed,an invasion force of 180,000 men essentially gone , another 300,000 called up 8 weeks later they are calling up another 500,000 men and are still losing and losing badly.

    Don't help Ukraine,it will escalate thing , don't give Ukraine weapons it will only escalate things,

    Now we have Western armor heading to Ukraine and still people want to side with the Russians.

    They may as well send Nato full steam into ukraine and finish this off in a week



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭briany


    It's likely that NATO has always known Russia was a paper tiger in terms of its conventional military. I don't think it's on that basis that NATO has hesitated to have a direct confrontation. It seems to be the policy not to go toe to toe with nuclear powers, and it seems like that's still being followed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 478 ✭✭Run Forest Run


    You've got to be pretty naive (or perhaps wilfully ignorant) to think Nato are not already in this fight.

    Nato general secretary Jens Stoltenberg basically admitted as much several months ago, when he stated that a Russian victory in Ukraine would be "a defeat for us all"... and as far as most Russians are concerned, this is a war against the west not just Ukraine.

    The real question is, why has such a powerful alliance of nations struggled so badly for almost an entire year now to defeat one nation - and a nation that you characterize as a "busted flush"?? Surely all of this enormous expenditure of high spec western weaponry, should have already made mince meat of such a weak nation? But yet here we are...



  • Registered Users Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Mike3549


    Forest how many NATO troops are in UA?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,473 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Putin's aim was to take all of Ukraine in a week and install a fascist pro-Russian Federation puppet government. By any stretch of the imagination, that has been a spectacular failure.



This discussion has been closed.
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