Roderic O’G: Transgender issues added to primary curriculum

Is it really any better than telling them that they could transform into something else in their sleep??

As I said, there is no easy way to explain this to a child in an age appropriate way and be faithful to all the facts - because the hard reality is those facts are not age appropriate for children.

That's why it should be left up to parents to explain this as they are the best assessors of a child's maturity. Not every child learns the truth about Santa at the same age - so some blanket dictat from government that this must be taught in X primary class is inappropriate - all to appease a vocal lobby group.

@Wibbs in response to the link to a study you posted earlier where they used a very small sample size of 20 gay and 20 straight participants in 2008; this more recent evaluation of a number of studies says;

...and this is the important part esp the bit I've bolded;

In other words the difference in gay and starlight brains as may be found in some studies is totally inconclusive. This is why I said earlier I believe that scientists will never find a trans or gay brain because whenever they do find some difference in a study it is not replicated across the board.

Well unless all teachers have all been enrolled in a nationwide programme that I haven't heard about to learn about trans issues its a fair assumption.

Are you saying all teachers are equipped to teach kids about trans issues?

This is just nonsense. Teachers teach all sorts of things that dont have specific nationwide programmes for all teachers.

Teachers teach things they learned in school and in real life.

Teachers did not learn about being trans in school and I would wager the vast majority have never had a conversation with one.

You please stop with your nonsense and explain to me how Teachers are qualified to teach kids on something they know very little if anything about themselves.

Those summer courses, and in service days tend to 'upskill' or add to existing skills of teachers.

If there is to be a place on the curriculum for this topic I would expect that it would very clearly laid out and based on the relevant science. Or better still left off the curriculum and left to the people who know best for their kids.

Point 1.

Teachers jobs - currently - are not to train transgender concepts to kids specificilly. It's not part of any curriculum in any way, shape or form.

Point 2.

Your vision of what "Transgender Concepts" are, and what they would look like in a curriculum/how much time should be spent on them in an 8 year educational cycle are very relevant (in my opinion) - who should be involved in coming up with this curriculum and who should be involved in upskilling teachers in it?

(I appreciate another poster has given me an idea of what their vision is for this earlier in the thread and from what I can tell it amounted to a ten minute lesson over the course of a 8 year timeframe)

Point 3.

You don't need to have a vision to point out anything to be fair. There's a lack of respect from certain posters about certain times towards other posters, LGBTQ+ people, teachers, parents, kids and probably a few more groups. I don't think pointing it out so much actually adds anything to the discussion at all but ok - fair enough.

1 - Now is this opinoin or statement of fact? Either way, what's it based on?

2 - THAT'S what you mean by viison...? In that case, one or two afternoons a week to fifth/sixth class students concerning different aspects of famliies and gender identities. There was a teacher posting several pages back and that's pretty much what they said happened.

If that's not what you meant - my apologies - but again: you'll have to clarify what you mean.

3 - The lack of respect comes from people telling me that they know more about what teaching entails about transgedner topics than teachers or people difrectly involved with transgender topics themselves, a la the poster I was replying to originally. Also, people telling me that a woman can't be a man scientifically or legally when science is offering treatments and politics is accepting them legally. I've literally had someone say to me (in a different thread) that they didn't "give a ****" what science said. At which point, we're in creationist/flat earth territory. And that might be disrespectful, but if someone is going to ignore science then it's genuinely difficult for me to respect someone with that attitude and calling it "logic'.

But why would they do it, they are very unlikely to teach a transgender pupil.

It is a massive waste of time and resources.

I would be 100% in agreement this should be done on a case by case basis if the situation arises in a school.

Teachers are in no way qualified to teach this on a countrywide scale and neither should they be considering the tiny percentage of trans people in ireland.

Deal with on a case by basis when it occurs and allow parents to teach it if and when they think its appropriate to have a conversation.

It based on FACT, based on the current primary school curriculum - no mention of transgenderism. Granted teachers will do their best if it comes up however it's not something that generally comes up in primary school.

One or two afternoons a week EVERY week? Really? There's no school in the country that are spending one or two afternoons a week teaching any one specific topic currently, let alone a topic that's not on the curriculum (transgenderism).

Most teachers (primary school) dont really know about transgender topics to the level you are talking about (unless it is something they have direct engagement with) - you would have to define exactly what is to be taught and how it is to be taught.

I meant the bit about 'Teachers jobs - currently - are not to train transgender concepts to kids specificilly' being fact. Their job is to teach whatever syllabus the department deems apt. How do you know what training or experience they've had or will get??

The bit about it not being on the syllabus I self-evident given the topic of the conversation.

And no, not every week - just as a one-off. Maybe as part of a broader based social/community syllabus (sorry - I worded that wrong).

Ye really do believe that the Ireland that tried to ignore any subject that made them uncomfortable was a healthy environment to grow up in. Jesus!

There are depending on what source you believe, between 3500-4000 transgender people in Ireland. In life I’ve never personally encountered one.

There are 5.3 million million people approximately living here…

.075% of our population approximately are transgender , but we are adjusting the curriculum at significant cost, time and effort to educate what is a very insignificant issue nationally for the majority of citizens…