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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭zv2


    If they mobilize it will be a bloodbath, more so for the Russians.

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Their tactics if that's what you can call them is to throw men into the fight and repeat. Of course many will die but those that survive will learn and they use up Ukrainian munitions and stores. I guess Ukraine needs to keep the edge in technology equipment and training.



  • Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭pummice


    Ukraine could also issue a call for more members for their international legion, thats a possible untapped source of manpower



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I don't see it making any improvements for them,

    The 300,000 call up has led to embarrassment for the Russians they don't have the main power to sufficiently train and equipp 300,000 for war in the current climate, close to 1million men for a three day adventure to Kiev and still haven't achieved any major objectives,

    Meanwhile the Ukrainans cancelled a winter mobilisation because they already have the numbers training, trained and Mobilized to the front,and a significant number in reserve,

    They were literally turning people away from recruitment centers , where the Russians have been reduced to emptying prisons,

    Russia can call up a million men but no one seems to be motivated to fight against Ukraine any other countries ok on behalf of putin ,if there is zero motivation imagine then zero motivated men being sent to another country with little or no supplies and outdated equipment and weapons,

    Will anyone then be willing to fight to the death for your cause, freeing, starving and under fire 24/7 from an enemy who are better trained,, better equipped and motivated to fight to the death to defend their country and the lives of all Ukrainians ,



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    That works out at half a million per dead Russian?



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,491 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Every single other nuclear armed country. Nuclear proliferation is not exactly viewed in a positive light by those who already have it.

    They were not Ukraine's nukes, they had at that point in time no ability to use them. They would likely have been saying goodbye to any kind of aid/investment from the west if they had kept hold of them and tried to jailbreak them. Not to mention could have seen a much earlier invasion by Russia (and the pretext of securing rogue nuclear weapons would have had a lot of traction). It wasn't some act of altruism for world peace or anything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,394 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Lot of the Zerg captures have been reversed it seems around Bakhmut.

    Soledar seems more tricky with UAF maintaining overall firecontrol but Russians may have centre of town.

    All Eyes On Rafah



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,538 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Think about it in terms of destroyed weaponry. Those tanks and fighter jets aren't cheap, nevermind a sunk warship!



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,394 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    @greenpilot around?


    Reports of unusual holding patterns around Moscow. Like to get his opinion or maybe it's just nothing. Wondering if a drone snuck in or they just having air controller problems.

    All Eyes On Rafah



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,853 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Based on the quality of both forces shown so far, adding 500k troops on the Russian side mightn’t make much of a difference, assuming they even have the resources to deploy that many troops. However, even increased numbers of pure cannon fodder on the Russian side has a cost on Ukraine. They have to use those extra bullets to shoot those conscripts, which otherwise would not have been used, and the horror of this continuous slaughter must be extremely draining, requiring more rotation of Ukrainian troops. It is a costly and barbaric tactic for the Russians, but it’s mostly what they’ve got left at the moment since a lot of thier kit is trash.

    Ukraine could call up the guts of near 1million with a full mobilisation. However unlike Russia’s mobilisation, Ukraine have a large professional army to support their conscripts, while Russia have barely anyone capable left.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭strathspey


    Hmmm, starting to sound expensive when you you put that kind of spin on it. I wouldn't think an orc was worth 1/2 million.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    So no one said anything about Ukraine not being allowed to have nuclear weapons.

    The only ones with an issue was the Russians



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    What on earth do you mean by 'allow' - the US would invade, start a war?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,491 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    If you think Russia was the only country that had an issue with nuclear proliferation in the wake of the break-up of the USSR then there is little point discussing anything more about this with you. Why else are the US and the UK negotiating the signing the bloody thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭junkyarddog


    This would be one of my concerns too.

    What happens if they simply can't sustain the loss of AFU personnel?

    Will russia simply win just by throwing by sheer numbers,as they've done in the past?

    Or will Ukraine allies step in to make up the numbers?

    It is worrying.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,491 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The US has not invaded or started a war with Iran, nor are they currently doing so with NK.

    There would have been escalating diplomatic and economic pressure from all major powers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,305 ✭✭✭prunudo


    You'd have to wonder are these fatalities caused by their own side, the so called cannon fodder, shot dead by their own side for not progressing forwards.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,491 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Russia doesn't have the "sheer numbers" that they did in the past - nor is it remotely as easy to mobilise your society at large for an invasion as it is for defence of your homeland.

    Ukraine is not a small country population wise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Right, so complete bollocks as expected. The only real intervention to stop a country acquiring nuclear weapons was the Israeli air raid on Iraq's nuclear reactor 40 years ago. No one stopped India or North Korea or Pakistan. It's a fantasy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I thought you don't do hypotheticals ,

    You made the claim , but there's no historical discussion on the subject,yes the US were signatories because they were the biggest political and military powerhouses at the time in the region,

    No point discussing it ,not because you say so ,

    But because it didn't happen and your hypothetically speaking



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,491 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I never claimed force would have been used.

    But had Ukraine not given up their nukes, I suspect they would not need to be worrying about a Russian invasion as they would be a satellite backwater much like Belarus (or indeed, NK) because they would have been economically annihilated and would certainly be a pariah in the west.

    There is a reason they gave them up after all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,634 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    When Russia mobilised last year it came at least a month too late. The lines were not manned enough and they got routed in Kharkiv.

    If Putin is projecting they'll run out of mobilised by let's say late summer there's no point mobilising again then. It makes more sense to do it now and get them 5 months to a year worth of training before they hit the frontlines.

    Ultimately I think it's a smart decision and necessary if he wants any chance of holding current lines. Sadly I think this decision will see them last into 2024 and I wouldn't put it past him pulling a third mobilisation then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    That claim came from a Russian source .

    Of course Ukraine are taking casualties nobody said they weren't but when the claims come from the Kremlin you know it's all lies



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    They do have what are called blocking forces in place to stop any numbers of troops retreating from positions,if Russians try to retreat they will be attacked by their own forces



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,491 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl



    I said it was a pointless hypothetical not that I "don't do hypotheticals".

    The US and UK were signatories because the US and UK also wanted to limit nuclear proliferation in the wake of the break-up of the USSR. If only Russia was concerned, why would they be involved at all?

    If you want to take the hypothetical to its full conclusion, Ukraine would be receiving zero support from the UK or US had they gone down that road. So maybe the nukes would have helped, maybe not.

    Also there is plenty of historical discussion on the topic. Here is a link to a body set up in the US precisely for this purpose https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2006-05/features/nunn-lugar-15-time-relax-global-threat-reduction-efforts



  • Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭junkyarddog


    Mobilized russian artillery personnel complaining of being sent to infantry.

    Running out of shells for them?

    So send them to the front to be useful perhaps?



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,456 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    That is the key. Russia has lost most of its modern tanks and armoured vehicles. It has used up a large amount of it munitions. During the last mobilisation it struggle to provide uniform's and weapons to the recruits

    Simple cheap old technology line like the LAWS anti tank rockets are proving very versatile in this war.

    Mobilisation will just mean more Russian deaths. Several NATO countries are training Ukrainian recruits since last June. Supposedly 15k every three months. These are highly skilled soldiers when trained. There will be 50k of these in place by late spring. Many of these are probably being trained in specialist NATO equipment and weapon systems.

    What Russia has left is mostly older T62 tanks. The tanks being given to the UA now will slice through these like butter the only worry would be if Russia has much in the way of handheld or there two man anti tank weapons and how effective these are.

    By the end of the winter the Russian army will be in a terrible place IMO. It will only be a case of mopping them up

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Come on now .

    Why were the British and Americans signatories?

    Not because they didn't want anyone else to have nuclear weapons,they were solely there to legimise the Russians scam , nothing else



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,997 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Remember too that Poland and other Baltic states inc Finland are all looking on too. From their POV, prevention would be better than cure - so if Ukraine is seriously threatened, they could well either unilaterally or together enter the war. Not as NATO but as individual or group of states.



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,314 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Not unheard of. Most of my tank battalion went to Iraq as TWATs. (Tankers Without A Tank). Army decided that the could probably come up with a better name so officially "dragoons"

    US Army in WW2 went a similar way. The ratio of infantrymen in replacement troops was way underestimated for the first two years. By the end of the war, some 80% of recruits were branching infantry.



This discussion has been closed.
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