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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Very simple really, apply the same basic principle most western democracies use to select juries. In other words, you periodically select a couple hundred people to run the country for a few years.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,491 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Soviet Nuclear Threat Reduction Act of 1991

    SEC. 211. NATIONAL DEFENSE AND SOVIET WEAPONS DESTRUCTION. (a) FINDINGS.—The Congress finds— (1) that Soviet President Gorbachev has requested Western help in dismantling nuclear weapons, and President Bush has proposed United States cooperation on the storage, transportation, dismantling, and destruction of Soviet nuclear weapons; (2) that the profound changes underway in the Soviet Union pose three types of danger to nuclear safety and stability, as follows: (A) ultimate disposition of nuclear weapons among the Soviet Union, its republics, and any successor entities that is not conducive to weapons safety or to international stability; (B) seizure, theft, sale, or use of nuclear weapons or components; and (C) transfers of weapons, weapons components, or weapons know-how outside of the territory of the Soviet Union, its republics, and any successor entities, that contribute to worldwide proliferation; and (3) that it is in the national security interests of the United States (A) to facilitate on a priority basis the transportation, storage, safeguarding, and destruction of nuclear and other weapons in the Soviet Union, its republics, and any successor entities, and (B) to assist in the prevention of weapons proliferation, (b) EXCLUSIONS.—United States assistance in destroying nuclear and other weapons under this title may not be provided to the Soviet Union, any of its republics, or any successor entity unless the President certifies to the Congress that the proposed recipient is committed to— (1) making a substantial investment of its resources for dismantling or destroying such weapons; (2) forgoing any military modernization program that exceeds legitimate defense requirements and forgoing the replacement of destroyed weapons of mass destruction; (3) forgoing any use of fissionable and other components of destroyed nuclear weapons in new nuclear weapons; (4) facilitating United States verification of weapons destruction carried out under section 212; (5) complying with all relevant arms control agreements; and (6) observing internationally recognized human rights, including the protection of minorities




  • Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭junkyarddog


    If the are able to mobilise another 500k like the rumor suggests,that is still a hell of a lot of personnel to have deal with.

    As for the invasion aspect,most russians are brainwashed into thinking they are defending their homeland.

    I just hope all those new toys the AFU get make a difference.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭rolling boh


    I hope you are right but I think you are fairly optimistic about them being mopped up Putin has huge numbers to call on to keep this up and a few buddies to help him .We have hearing about Russia falling apart for a long time now but there is no sign of Putin accepting his mistake and calling things off .



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,491 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Who is going to train the 500k troops? Where are the officers and NCOs going to come from? It will be a rabble.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭briany


    While any of these countries entering the war would probably help end the conflict sooner, creating a bigger headache for Russia than it already has, they're already in NATO, and that's their prevention. They would have little to fear from even pre-2022 Russian army under this arrangement, never mind the currently depleted one, so none of these countries will be unilaterally entering the fray under the basis of prevention.

    The most I see the likes of the Poles getting involved is maybe as some kind of peacekeeping force along the Ukraine-Belarus border, and that's still pretty unlikely.



  • Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭junkyarddog


    I agree,but they still would be a time and resource drain on the AFU regardless of how untrained they are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    This is how they are going to try and create enthusiasm for the next mobilization campaign of 500K lucky Orcs.

    Yay, WW2 weapons and a couple of ladies, who by the look of their appeciation for each other, won't have the slightest interest in a walking fertiliser bag.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,360 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump




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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,434 ✭✭✭jmreire


    That's not an accurate breakdown of costs though is it? To do that, you need to add in the value of every bit of destroyed Russian hardware, tanks, aircraft, ships, ammunition dumps etc. If all these values are added up and subtracted from the 50 billion, you will find that the individual Russian lives were the smallest cost.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users Posts: 16,563 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    The Soledar situation still doesn't looks great.

    This is the most concise illustration I have seen to describe what has happened and how Russia managed to bypass a fortress so quickly.

    Soledar is essentially a barbell of a town. There's a northern part, and southern part with a narrow strip in-between.

    The southern part was a fortress that has held for months until now.

    It looks like the Russians made an assault across country that bypassed the most fortified areas in the southern part. Ukrainian troops who feared being cut off withdrew from the southern part to the northern part which is still contested.

    In the grand scheme of things, the advance is minor, but when you compare it to other Russian advances, it looks more significant.

    We will just have to wait and see how this all plays out. My guess is that Ukraine will heavily reinforce the northern part of Soledar that they control. It's too early to say who wins.

    The one thing that is abundantly clear is that Putin's talk of an Orthodox Christmas ceasefire was all a lie.

    The significant Russian advance we've seen over the last two days was planned and coordinated with the hope that they might have caught the Ukrainians off guard.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Does Putin think that he can just conscript hundreds of thousands of unwilling young Russian men with no blowback? Think about it - you have nearly 1 million Russian men who have fled the country rather than be enlisted, and that's just the ones who've had the gumption to get up and go. How many multiples of that are keeping their mouths shut, but are really thinking that this whole war is a bad idea and they don't even know why it's being fought? What logistics does Russia have to feed and clothe these men, never mind arm them, to make their pre-slaughter lives that bit more bearable? If these conscripts know they're being sent to what is an almost certain death in a war they don't even necessarily agree with, then there's not a whole lot to stop them refusing orders. At worst, they get shot by their own side for doing so. Same result for them with less steps.

    Russian oligarchs are wandering out of windows, protests have been quashed and hundreds of thousands of not-very-enthusiastic conscripts are being rounded up. There are surely a lot of Russians in Russia with bad thoughts against Putin right now, and while it might seem like he has an iron grip on his country, the pressure below the surface is building, and when it erupts, it won't end well for Putin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    What if they targeted the Russian Vodka factory? Would it help or hinder?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭rolling boh


    Even if the recruits were poorly trained or armed they would at least stretch the Ukrainians if they gathered near a border in various places .



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,434 ✭✭✭jmreire


    DO NOT TOUCH !!!! Vodka factory's are the greatest asset to Ukraine.. just try to imagine the unimagineable....a sober Russian Army. Unthinkable!! They might even start making rational decisions on the battlefield.

    🤣🤣🤣



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Don't underestimate a rabble Podge. If it's a big enough rabble.

    Looking at Russian(& Soviet) campaigns and tactics of the past, the opening rounds are nearly always a shítshow. They overrun an area and then when anything like competent forces oppose them they get routed, or run to a standstill(usually the former). Then they regroup, sometimes with better tactics, but alongside better tactics they(like the Chinese) always use what they always had a lot of; people. People they didn't care about losing in huge even obscene numbers. People who themselves were eager, or eager enough to die for the motherland in obscene numbers. Look at some of the insane(to us) nonsense on their TV. "Life is overrated" etc.

    I remember reading a book on the war in the east in WW2. Max Hastings IIRC(always a bloody good source IMHO). And there were estimates of the "kill ratios" of Germans Vs Russians and the smaller number held that for every German they killed, at least eight Russians died in the balanc. Some estimates ran higher, more like twelve to one. If Germany and the Soviet's numbers had been roughly equal going in it's almost certain that instead of Moscow fancying themselves as the Third Rome, they'd be in the Third Reich

    The losses we're seeing, even if it's only a fraction of the spin, would have most western democracies crying foul on the home front. Regardless of what spin we believe or not, Russia(and Ukraine) have lost more people, likely way more people, than the US did in the War On Terror/Where's The Oil At over twenty years, in less than a year. We're looking at a war not seen since WW2 or even WW1 in casualties both sides are willing to take. Over Christmas I was having a convo with an uncle of mine in his mid 90's and he pointed that out to me. He's been keeping an eye on this insanity and that's what struck him. He never thought he'd see this again.

    Now the Ukrainians are fighting for their homeland. This gives them a major advantage. The problem is the Russians, or enough of them are convinced or have been convinced that they're fighting for Russia too. They believe they're taking "Russia back".

    I can see this going on for years. Even if there was to be a ceasefire, Russia has a crap record on agreements. Look at today's Julian Christmas "ceasefire". Cease.... Fire!!

    But I still contend that Russia has already lost, and across the political, economic, social and "moral" spectrum with it. They've shown themselves up to be the one thing that will always hit them hard and has for centuries; they now look like ignorant barbarians. Ukraine will win in the end, but at a terrible price. And "we" have to help them win. TBH I wish "we" could make the Russian people win in the longterm, because they so deserve better and contrary to the "they're all orcs!!" fúcking retarded jingoistic bullshít, they're more than capable of being better, much better, but sadly that's a much harder task. 😔

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,434 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Yes. There has to be a buildup of anti-war, anti Putin sentiment at this stage, but Putin is the master of jumping on and destroying any kind of rebellion, even the smallest trace of it. Little old Lady holding a white flower on the street in Moscow arrested and whisked away within minutes. Maybe in the republics, and Samara could be a starting point, as that was where most of those killed in the recent bombing of the school in Makiivka were from. For sure, I would not like to be the recruitment officer sent there to start the next round of mobilizations. At some point in time, the cracks will become too wide to cover up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭Hobgoblin11


    One person killed as result of Russian missile strike in Merefa, Kharkiv region


    Dundalk, Co. Louth



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭Polar101


    Enter with what though? The Baltic states have tiny armies and wouldn't be able to attack anyone. Finland has a reserve force, but they wouldn't be mobilised unless the country itself was invaded.

    Poland might do something, who knows.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    @Wibbs

    Russia hasn't faired well in wars since the end of WW2 it was all great and dandy massacring civilians in Hungary and the Czechoslovakia,

    But they got their arses handed to them in Afghanistan,and dagistan , Chechnya twice (and only claimed victory by killing large numbers of the civilian populations)

    Remember during WW2 they had the advantage of home soil and a badly prepared German military forces that fared well until winter and lack of winter supplies hit home ,the Russians were motivated and the Germans were fighting across Europe as well as Russia they were never going to succeed,

    This Time around the Russians are ill prepared and they aren't motivated to fight to the death, poorly trained and equipped vs a modern revitalized military force that didn't exist 9 years ago,a military and population fighting for their lives and their rights to exist ,

    The Russians are fighting for what,they don't know, whats the end game ,they don't know, what's the current plan,they don't know.

    Raping and murdering people on an industrial scale ,and you wonder why they are called Orc's,

    Subhuman scum and they are dieing in there thousands a week,

    Why they don't know why,

    but they dieing horrifying deaths 24/7 for no reason they know of .

    It's not 1945 anymore

    Post edited by Gatling on


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I don't thinking the quashing of dissent is doing Putin any real favours anyway. All it does is push the resentment into the more secretive avenues. We're not going to see it because by design it would not want to be seen. Yet.

    More than suppressing protest, Putin will be keen to keep the consequences of protracted and bloody war from the doorsteps of middle class urban Russians. An aim that will become progressively more difficult than to achieve as time goes on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,434 ✭✭✭jmreire


    The point is with Putin, he has always quashed dissent...just look at the very first Oligarch he "quashed"...the richest and most powerful of them all, Khodorkovsky, He made an example of him, and the writing on the wall was crystal clear for all the other's, what I have done to him, I can and will do to you if you get any ideas like him and try an challenge me. And so the stage was set. Its something he is well used to throughout his dictatorship. Like I mentioned, Samara is one possible flashpoint for protests to break out, and who knows if it would be the spark to break the log jam? That there is an undercurrent of dissent creeping in is inescapable, when he ordered the mobilization of 300'00 conscripts, and 700'000 + left the Country speaks volumes about dissent. We will see what happens if and when he calls for the mobilization of 500'000. That will be interesting to see how that goes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,952 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    You simply can't take back an independent state by force at this time in history so why are the west allowing it to drag on, when in fact they could end it tomorrow. Years ago the str ongest ruled, you could do what you liked, but not today

    It's like Mexico today trying to take back Texas, California, Arizona, Nevada,Utah, New Mexico,Colorado, all the land the US annexed from them, but it's simply not feasible at this moment in history.

    US and Nato need to end it now, drive Russia out



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,563 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    The blue line I drew is the Bakhmut river.

    Unless Ukraine can reverse things soon, I fear they will end up needing to withdraw to positions to the west of it. The front Ukraine are defending is very wide, with very limited crossing points to supply it. The current situation doesn't look sustainable.

    If Ukraine had more artillery/ammo, they would not be in this position. Unfortunately the powers that be and most people on this forum seem to think that Ukraine has everything it needs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,801 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    How could the west end it tomorrow? Realistically the only way they could intentionally end it in a day is a massive conventional attack on Russia and hope Russia doesn't retaliate. Or do you have another option?



  • Registered Users Posts: 761 ✭✭✭mikewest


    Can you reread what you posted Toby please. Only your Russia are trying to take anything and all they need to do is feck off back home for peace to break out all over.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,801 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Nobody on here believes Ukraine has all they need.

    I think everyone here has been calling for more of everything and tanks, fighter jets, ATACMS, I'd even toss in the JDAMS, cruise missiles and the SAAB rocket bombs. I've no idea why you assume people on here are content with what Ukraine has received. Ludicrous statement.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 35,952 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    They would not even need to fire a single bullet, all they'd need to do is draw the line, and make it very clear that if Russia cross it there will be consequences, like giving Ukraine everything they request to defend themselves, long range missiles, fighter jets, ect



This discussion has been closed.
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