Russia - threadbanned users in OP

You appear to have fully gone down the western rabbit hole wibbs. You're drunk on the western cool-aid.

I'm afraid not. I just look to the realities. You certainly won't hear go go on about "orcs" or "hohols" for that matter.

The supreme arrogance of so many people in the west, that we think cutting off ties with Russia means that their nation will simply crumble and disintegrate before our eyes...

OK, let's look at the realities. Russia has been "cut off" from the "west" for most of her history. They missed out or were way off on the sidelines for massive cultural shifts like the renaissance, the reformation, the enlightenment. When people like Peter the Great tried to get them up to speed, it succeeded, but only in the west of the country and to much resistence and much of it surface. They were the last European feudal society and that lasted into the middle of the 19th century and the attitudes of that lasted until the Russian people removed their oppressors. They were part of the modern world and a superpower during Soviet days, but that didn't last so long and collapsed in a heap. And what arose was a bit too much like the old order for comfort.

Russians and Ukrainians are very similar people - it's in their dna - they know how to suffer and struggle. (I know many people on here won't like me saying this, but it's the truth)

I agree, but where will that get them? In WW2 they had the demographics to come back from those appalling losses. They don't now. And this is muy importante. You can't outrun demographics. It's about the best crystal ball to foretell the future. Russia's birthrate has fallen off a cliff. How much does the Russian government pay women to have kids? They know it too and yet the decline continues. Russia has one of the highest abortion rates on the planet. I isn't the usual trend of get richer have fewer kids either. This decline is seen across the board, even in dirt poor rural areas of Russia. This stupid war has hastened this decline. How many tens of thousands have left? Adding to the existing yearly drain of the young and educated? Never mind the tens of thousands of young men who will be killed in this silly war. And this noble suffer and struggle stuff is likely to lead to hundreds of thousands dead by the time this is over.

Ah but Europe has a declining birthrate you say? Yep it does, but there is one major difference. People want to come to Europe. If Europe fully opened the floodgates that number would be in the millions. Nobody wants to go to Russia and even fewer will now. Millions of Ukrainians have been displaced by this war into Europe. Russia seems to have thought this would soften resolve and they got that wrong too. Many of those will ultimately stay in Europe.

In the long run, Russia will probably be better off without western co-operation and interference. They have their own culture and way of life, they don't really need us.

They didn't to a far greater degree during the Soviet empire. They were largely sefl contained with more than double the people and mostly young people, a command economy that worked well enough, if way behind western living standards, especially beyond the cities. But that was before the level of globalisation since and of course the fall of their empire. Today is a very different prospect. Take something mundane like Telegram, the platform that many Russians use. Built by two Russians, one of whom now lives in the decadent west, that runs on western platforms and tech. Oh sure much of it is built in places like China, but the licences and tech behind it is overwhelmingly western. And that's just a web platform. Russia is at least a decade behind the west in chip tech and production, they're not even on the maps of IT in general. They have some fantastic programmers but how many of them leave the first chance they get?

And they have their own abundant resources too. You seem to be forgetting that this war will also bring about the end of western control of Russia - something many hardliners within Russia have wanted for decades. And it's a disaster for the Americans in particular and their desire to maintain the western international order as well as their own position as the global police force. Another dangerous nation that is non co-operative with the west. (it's a rapidly growing list - thanks in no small part to ineffective western foreign policy)

The "west" wasn't interested in controlling Russia. If they were they would have delivered a coup de grace in the 90's. They didn't. This is putin BS to keep the populace afraid of The Other. Something that has a very long history in Russia. International order is Western I'm afraid. From universal human rights to modern economies to the world of tech. It's pretty much all "western". America world police is a holdover from the Cold War and with a large sideorder of economics. The problem for the anti westerners and anti America types in particular is that America doesn't rely on it. You see some online going on about the US and Bretton Woods bla bla, "unipola worlds", while forgetting that ended in the early 70's and America inc kept going.

And again America is paying a bargain price to watch Russia bleed out men and materiel without Americans coming back in bodybags.

And as regards this conflict, I think many people are going to be in for a bit of a shock with regards to Russia's stamina for this fight... western propaganda has caused many of you to vastly underestimate a group of people who really should not be underestimated.

Oh this will likely go on for years. It's Russia's last gasp at waving the sabre around. See demographics above.

Like most people, I hope for a peaceful resolution to this as soon as possible. But this will depend on attitudes in the west, just as much as those in the Kremlin.

That's easy. Russia leaves. Though I would still say leave Crimea to them. Not a popular point, but there it is.

I note you ignored my question earlier: Would tens of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians be dead, would cities and towns be levelled, would economies be in freefall, millions displaced, if Russia hadn't invaded? Yes, or No. That's the bald reality behind any of the spin from either side. If you say no, then it's you who is drinking the Kool-Aid(smuggled across the border).