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Incident at George's St

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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,415 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    id imagine emergency drivers are well equipped with the knowledge of the fastest routes around the city, i know a couple, i must ask them what their protocols are, but id also imagine their needs vary greatly compared to most other road users, a bus route doesnt necessarily need to get around the city quickly, it just needs to get around, many buses travel at below speed limits, and of course must regularly stop, an emergency vehicle generally needs to get to a single place, and quickly, these are radically different needs, and not comparable....



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭914


    A bus does not need to overtake traffic. I would imagine a fire engine trying to get down summerhill with traffic on both sides of the road would be similar to the Quays.

    Especially at the top of summerhill, descending, cars are parked on the left and traffic stopped at lights on the right.

    The only issue for the fire service taking the Quay is the section from say city square entrance to the roundabout at shaws (200-300 meters maybe).



  • Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 9,036 Mod ✭✭✭✭Aquos76


    I would have assumed that they would always try and go the quickest option, I have seen fire tenders going over cannon street and Morrisons road in the past. I also remember reading somewhere that the newer fire tenders are narrower than the old ones, in fairness, they'd want to be as many of the newer housing estates across the city are certainly not ideal for any emergency vehicles



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,415 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    id imagine its a very dynamic situation, as we live in a very dynamic world, some routes probably become more difficult, and subsequently slower for services over time, for various reasons, id have faith that the services know the best routes for their needs, and ultimately for our needs, but it shows how concerned we all are for the integrity and functionality of these services. we all need these services to work as best as possible, and the current developments in our overall health system is simply beyond disturbing at this stage.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 257 ✭✭Waterford26


    Someone mentioned Amsterdam here..so we trying to follow this way ok, but forget about much worse weather for cycling, walking etc to work.. will never take mi bike to work at 6am in rain and wind!! No matter how "green" this council wants me to be! Also ambulances in Netherlands are very often accompanied with 3 motorcycle police chaps to clear the road ahead!!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭914


    You do realise Ireland and the Netherlands have similar rainfall?

    I also do not think anyone is suggesting that you have to cycle for work at 6am, I'm sure people in Amsterdam also drive (although they have much better public transport which makes that a good alternative) but city centre travel is largely by bike which would be the aim of most Irish cities, have City centers car free zones and have plenty of cycle routes available for those looking to cycle to the city centers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭Asdfgh2020


    Loads cycling to get their daily/weekly shopping…..very practical alright



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,415 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...public transport is gonna be the key here, and an astonishing level of investment is gonna be needed for it, in order for this whole cycling thing to work, and i cant see that happening anytime soon, id say hundreds of billions would need to be invested over the next few years in public transport, in order for it to actually work, but will that happen!



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    Have you ever actually been to the Netherlands? Practically everyone in the suburbs has a car and can easily drive to a supermarket. But they can also cycle there in safety, whereas you're taking your life in your hands here. Practically the only place they can't drive conveniently is into city centres, and people who live there use cargo bikes or removable bike trailers to get the shopping - or because it's densely populated, they can often just pick up what they need as and when, from a local express supermarket.

    And yes, it rains there, and yes, I asked the question... and the answer was "you just wear the clothes for cycling in the rain!" It's surprisingly easy to cycle in the rain when you're not being splashed by cars.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    In fairness, that's because the OP was only using this incident to give out about the traffic arrangements on the Quay.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭BBM77


    Was on a short city break to a European capital over Christmas. It was ironic as there was so much about improving public transport in Ireland lately. Being there just highlighted to me again that Ireland is a million miles away from European public transport standards. This thing of reducing cars by a quarter or whatever it was may well happen over time but it will be generations from now. This thing of reducing the bridge to one lane each way for example as car use will fall, just seems like a complete fantasy to me. In Waterford’s case they won’t even build a second bridge in the city and remove the toll from the bypass to get cars out of the city or add an orbital bus route, it’s a complete joke. The plan just seems like it does not know what it is about.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,415 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    yea our politicians are living in cuckoo land on this one unfortunately, the idea is great, but i suspect execution is gonna be dreadful, hence leading to failure, the levels of investment needed to do the job would be off the walls, it should happen of course, but probably wont, so we re stuck with the private car until it does....



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal



    Do you think what happened in the Netherlands happened overnight?

    It started only back in the 1970's, but even in the 1990 they had traffic filled streets in many areas. You type of comment about this failing and that failing is similar to the attitude they dealt with over the years.

    What works in the Netherlands BECAUSE they've slowed traffic and forced cars to take the more awkward routes. People, public transport and micro mobility get the faster more direct routes in citys.

    It's would be funny if it wasn't so tragic to see people in this thread say that things need to change, but then they talk out the other side of their mouth complaining when the council do perfectly logicial stuff like remove a multi lane road down the quays.



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal



    It's very practical, I can do collection from creche and a full weekly shop and still have room to spare.

    There's a few reasons why people rule out shopping using a bike, the main issue down to our complete lack of safe infrastructure and idiotic drivers.

    But the other issues are most bikes sold in Ireland lack mudguards etc (you buy them seperate which is stupid) and most people don't realise just how much stuff you can carry if you have panniers on a bike. I'm guilty of this myself as I regret not getting panniers years ago!

    If you have a practical bike with panniers its fantastic, if you have a cargobike you can carry lots and lots of stuff and in my view a e-assist cargobike is really a game changer and can replace a car.



  • Registered Users Posts: 418 ✭✭GandhiwasfromBallyfermot


    Exactly ,safe infrastructure and e-bikes are an absolute game changer. Living in Ferrybank I would sell my car tomorrow and buy an e bike if a safe river crossing and safe segregated infrastructure was built out as far as my workplace in the industrial estate. At the moment I'm driving and stuck in that awful traffic coming off the bypass because it just ain't safe for cycling around Waterford yet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 257 ✭✭Waterford26


    Netherlands around 810mm in last 5 years average.. Ireland 1200mm of rainfall my friend..very close 🤣🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭BBM77


    Yes, I thought it happened over night 🙄

    So what has the changes to the Quay achieved? Where is the segregated cycle lane that cyclist like me can use? Do I as a cyclist feel safer cycling on the Quays? I certain do not! What traffic has the changes on the Quays taken out of the city? Seen as you are so knowledgeable why don’t you enlighten me with the things the council has done to make me feel safer cycling around the city?



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal



    As a person that cycles almost every day I can count on two hands how often I've had to put on full rain gear (jacket/pants) and I can count on one hand how many times I've had to put the rain canopy on my cargobike since September. It doesn't rain nearly as much as people think and torrential is very far from a every day thing.

    If you use rain as an excuse not to cycle then it sounds like you have an unnatural fear of rain and I suppose the question needs to be asked is are you made of sugar and are you afraid of melting? There is a solution to your problems though, they are fantastic inventions....they are called jackets 😂

    Buy a decent one and get a proper bike with proper mudguards etc and you'll be flying.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭914


    Depends what you compare, the west of Ireland is generally wetter than the east.

    Amsterdam has an average of 133 days of precipitation

    Waterford has an average of 141 days of precipitation

    Approx 8 more dry days in Amsterdam than Waterford

    That is giving you just under 2/3's of the year cycling in dry weather. Obviously you may need to factor in wind etc, it still gives plenty of scope to cycle if you wanted and the infrastructure existed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,415 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    alternatives such as cycling definitely should be encouraged and facilitated, but we truly need to get real about this, multiples of billions of public funding must be invested in rapidly expanding our public transport systems, this must be done within this decade, in order to truly make all of this work, but the reality is, this is very unlikely to occur....

    for example, we must revert our rail network to what it was previously, and beyond....

    ...we must also implement light rail networks in our major cities....

    .....the reality....

    ....this isnt gonna happen, anytime soon.....

    ....so....



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  • Registered Users Posts: 257 ✭✭Waterford26


    Bought motorbike instead..so i can fly through traffic. Will leave the bicycles for you lol



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭Asdfgh2020


    Small sparsely populated (apart from Dublin and Belfast) counties like Ireland cannot sustain or justify vast rail networks connecting tiny population centres. There is hardly a metro or light rail network in any of the worlds major cities that doesn’t get some sort of public money /subvention…… The is no way that a rail network like the 1920’s one will ever be repeated in Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,415 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    well then the move towards de-private caring our nations simply wont work, we must include rapid wide scale public transport expansion, in order for this to work, there is simply no other way of doing this, if we keep effectively squeezing the general public in regards the only true option they have, i.e. the private car, the more likely this will all fail, again, theres no other way of doing this, none!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭Asdfgh2020


    the recent advances/breakthrough with nuclear fusion gives some hope.......cheap/clean and abundant energy :) may take another few decades but it should 'save' the planet....



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,415 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    its certainly looking better, but the road towards it is gonna be well dodgy, and i some how doubt they ll be popping up in the irish countryside anytime soon, if ever....



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭BBM77


    Won’t be like the 1920’s but there is plenty of improvements in services that can be made with the existing tracks. Look at the map Wanderer78 posted. It is a complete no brainier that there is not a Wexford-Waterford-Limerick-Galway service. Considering all that is along the route and the state of the N24, it’s a joke to talk about reducing car numbers while leaving a line like this undeveloped.



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