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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    He clearly has plenty to offer Ireland but so does Conan. At this point in time Conan has proven that he can do it at the very top levels. People might want to imagine he’s been off form but I would say it’s more that he’s being compared to and competing with Doris. Who is in another level than anyone else at present.

    Coombes offers something that the others don’t but we still don’t know if he can translate that to International. His showings so far suggest he struggles to do so.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    My point is that talking about "form" is a bit pointless when most of the games the provinces play are light years from test level.

    Maybe good form has less relevance. But bad form, at a lower level, would seem entirely relevant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,577 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Coombes isn't athletic enough. He's strong and powerful but lacks the pace of Conan. Coombes is a good player but, it's Doris who's the title holder.

    Kendellen is a fantastic player for the future. He'll amass a lot of caps, imo. But remember, there's a mass of others who will be challenging him. Lads like Culhane, McNabney and Quinn. Lots of potential on the way.

    As far as I can see, Farrell selects quicker more athletic players. I'm not sure if Coombes fits the bill.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Funny how you haven't been coming into the Ireland thread to lay into Ulster players after their poor performances of late, or Munster players after their losses this season (of which there have many).

    Yet when Leinster have an off day but still win, you go to town on a young guy who is realistically nowhere near the Ireland squad.

    I was quite a nifty player myself in school. Had trials for Leinster u18 when I was 15 (wasn't selected). They should call me up for the 6N.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,458 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Had high hopes for Coombes ahead of the Autumn, but he massively disappointed. Deegan was levels above him coming off the bench. I'd be very surprised if Coombes comes back into a 23 this side of the WC. Far too many other backrows in form competing with him.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    Coombes also had a very good performance in his first senior cap and was one of the best players to feature in the Maori games on the NZ tour. However all that is conveniently forgotten in order that some posters can dismiss him due to a poor performance two months ago (where everyone stunk up the place), despite the fact that he's been one of the best performing back rowers since.

    This place really is a midden. It's no wonder it doesn't get anywhere near the same amount of traffic it used to. Blind provincialism masquerading as informed opinion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Coombes was dropped after that performance against the New Zealand 15. That's what we have to go on right now. He clearly hasn't impressed Farrell and the wider coaching staff. He could play his way back into contention for the Six Nations, but he's running out of time.

    As for the usage of this forum, that's an entire site wide issue. Boards isn't as popular as it used to be. There's still enough activity on this particular subforum.

    WRT provincialism, there is some of that. And it's been particularly bad, or rather focused, in the last few days.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    He’s pretty much doing everything he possibly can to play his way back into contention.

    He’s been pretty outstanding since being dropped (maybe SA game excepting).

    It’s not unreasonable for a poster to have that opinion and think he should be ahead of Conan.

    It’s also not unreasonable to think Conan has produced more for Ireland in the past and deserves his spot.

    But too often, aaaaany hint of criticism gets written off as provincialism. (And it’s not just the last few days. The Munster thread has been a nightmare for ages now).



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    It wasn't just that Coombes wasn't picked for the Fiji match, it's that he was dropped from the squad entirely, the only person to be so dropped. And what should have been his jersey for that game went to Max Deegan, a man for whom "international wilderness" was an understatement at the time. That tells me that it wasn't just the NZ XV game that was the problem.

    This was absolutely not a good outcome for Coombes and I don't think it's outrageous to point that out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    It's apt because Lady Gaga is probably older than you'd think



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    It’s not outrageous to point that out.

    It’s also not outrageous to point out he’s been in brilliant form since then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Coombes played 5 times with Ireland including Twice in NZ against the Maoris where he scored 2 tries and 1 time with Ireland A

    (ratings from rugbypass when available so not biased towards any province)

    First game was 10 mins off the bench against a Beaten Japan - No ratings as he was not on long enough

    2nd Game was starting against the USA in 2021

    He scored a try

    https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/ireland-usa-player-ratings-231935


    1st Maori game where Ireland Lost - Coombes scored a try and assisted another

    https://www.rugbypass.com/news/ireland-player-ratings-vs-maori-all-blacks/

    2nd Maori all blacks game where Ireland won and Gav scored a try

    https://www.rugbypass.com/news/ireland-player-ratings-vs-maori-all-blacks-2/


    The only other game he has played was for the Ireland A team against the NZ XV. Everyone played badly that day and the whole team was dominated, but even still, Rugby Pass gave Coombes a 6

    https://www.rugbypass.com/news/ireland-a-player-ratings-vs-all-blacks-xv-autumn-nations-series/




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Ultimately the only relevant question is whether he has done enough to be brought back into the squad. You'd have to think yes.

    Whether he can overtake Conan will be decided then, definitely not now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,577 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Does Coombes fit the team? Really playing well is one thing but, if coaches are looking for other things like mobility and speed, it doesn't matter. Back row balance is key. What is the make up of our best back row? Obviously, VDF is miles above the others. Doris is ahead of his competition and there's only one other up for grabs. Injuries will adapt the players and schemes. I.E, if VDF is out who's next up? I think it would be POM or Timoney. If Doris goes down? It's most likely Conan at the moment, he fits the structures and has been in the system.

    Provincialism is one thing and yes, we're all guilty. The blindside position is likely POM; Doris (if Conan is at 8) and Prendergast. Prendergast has been insanely good since his debut. But, he's likely going to earn caps after the world cup. Saying that Conan has fallen off the edge is insane. He's fallen behind Doris and has Deegan (world u20 player of the year) to contend with. So, yea the standards are ridiculous. Coombes has no real contender to supplant him at Munster. At least until Gleeson and Quinn come through.

    Basically, Farrell decides who fits the style and does the best job. JGP has nailed down the 9 jersey. I think there's others who could be better 9's but don't meet the requirements for that role.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    That's all fair enough, and sure who am I to argue with Planet Rugby... but following the NZ XV game, Coombes was cut completely from the squad and his direct rivals, Prendergast and Deegan, were capped against Fiji the following week.

    So if it wasn't his performance against NZ, then something else went awry for him, but the simplest explanation is usually correct in these things.

    He's playing well and I hope he's named in the 6N squad but he absolutely has some ground to make up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Coombes was a non entity in the first Maori game. You are the one trying to conveniently forget or perhaps re-write history. He was good in the second game. Maybe you should look closer to home for the blind provincialism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,317 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I genuinely thought you were better than this but I suppose the mask finally slipped



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Did you read what I was responding to? No comment on that no?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,317 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Report it


    If we all reacted like you did where would the thread end up??????????



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Poorside


    Prendergast has not been "insanely good" for Ireland, he's been grand and loves to give away a few stupid penalties every game, I wouldn't be surprised if he's not involved in the 6N squad.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,057 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Coombes does i feel and yeah balance is key but attributes Coombes brings makes him very handy in a swuad.

    I think you are greatly overestimating prendergast.

    Dont see what the point of mentioning Deegan being world u20 player of the year 6 years ago has with his rugby ability now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I literally quoted RugbyPass (owned by world rugby) which said Coombes was the best Irish player that day.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Owned by World Rugby 😂 as if that matters.

    Farrell clearly doesn't agree with their rantings, which is all that really matters.

    Coombes, to me, has done enough to get back into the squad. But clearly he has ground to make up once he gets there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,577 ✭✭✭Dubinusa




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,577 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Deegan is a really good player, just like Coombes. I'm pointing out the obvious obstacles that come with being a #8 for Leinster. 3 really good players, it's tough to make make inroads after a year out.

    Coombes on the other hand, has not got competition for his spot. The reason I mentioned Deegans u20 world player award was to highlight the depth.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    It matters in they don't have the provincial biases that any Irish based journalist would have.

    My 'Rantings' yeah. I'm ranting sure



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭Former Former Former



    Edit; at the time of the Maori game, all the talk was how Coombes must have forced his way in to the test side etc, but he didn't.

    There's a bit of a pattern here, no?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,057 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Coombes does have competition... And mentioning Deegan u20 world player award is a bit like mentioning JJ hanrahan nominated for award. its irrelevant. inconsequential to a lot of players careers.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I said their rantings, and I meant ratings.

    This isn't about our provincial biases. Farrell dropped Coombes (and only Coombes) from the squad. Its obvious he has work to do to get back into consideration for the 23. He will hopefully have a chance in the upcoming squad - but performances against the Lions certainly won't do it on their own.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Yeah. The pattern is, when there are choices to be made, the player who plays for Leinster gets picked

    Cohesion and all that



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