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Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    You can't be serious. You've been plugging this war for ages.

    2nd in Europe 2021

    the guardian previously ranked them as most corrupt.

    Any number of sources in Europe commending the end of religious freedom in Ukraine.

    Only odd sources like Christian News Europe question the invasion of monasteries etc

    Please don't reply to me. I need to stay away from here for my own mental health. I need a break from the stupidity and blood lust here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    So Ukraine hasn't banned their own orthodox church.

    No ?

    Widely fantastical claims your making,and your links aren't backing you up ,



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    No comment on them being the second most corrupt country in Europe. Can I take it you are satisfied with transparency international and their assessment?

    Glory man united



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,325 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Nobody has said Ukraine is perfect and it's infantile to say otherwise.

    Whether they are or are not their corruption has no baring on Ukraine's right to exist. Or right to not be invaded by a hostile power. Or right to not have its civilians terrorised by daily attacks. Etc. Etc

    Of course we've been here before: that cynical attempt to frame Ukraine as imperfect at best, and secretly malevolent at worst, just so a game can be made of Both Sides. I will give you: there'll be no corruption in the country of Ukraine if the country of Ukraine stops existing.

    And if you think they're corrupt, you should see the other fella. More corrupt too by your own link.

    Post edited by pixelburp on


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,670 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Ukraine's attempts to improve their corruption, largely a holdover from soviet times, and align more with "Western" ideals is precisely why they are being invaded.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    That's why I said Russia is the most corrupt.

    Google Ukraine, beacon of democracy.

    It's common to see people with the Slava Ukraine byline. Glory to the second most corrupt country in Europe?

    Russia had legitimate concerns about NATO expansion, the attacks on Donbas and repression of Russian speech language.

    https://thegrayzone.com/2022/07/30/zelensky-militants-convicted-child-rape-torture-military/

    Does that justify an invasion? I think most people in Ireland would say NO. However, recognizing each sides grievances and having talks seems the road to peace.

    Appalling what is happening in Ballymun. A path to peace is not not the same as a path against refugees. Very sad to see the people in Ballymun intimidating refugees/ asylum seekers.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,325 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    This is just waffle. Corruption has no baring on "the road to peace", no relevance to the resolution of this war and trying to draw some kind of moral equivalence only reveals your argument as inherently Bad Faith. Akin to Victim Blaming TBH and trying to find something bad about Ukraine to pin to their chest. "Corruption" has nothing to do with the current concerted attempt to destroy civilian infrastructure in Kyiv, by way of repeated example.

    You undo your own logic by first admitting Russia has its own corruption, then talk about "recognising each sides grievances" - if himself corrupt why would Putin care one jot about Ukrainian politics. Russia unilaterally invaded a sovereign country - "legitimate concerns" had legitimate outlets, but Russia decided to invade. In keeping with Putin's own written belief that Ukraine is Russia's for the taking, part of "Historical Russia". Trying to bring "corruption" into the discussion is revealing, so you can't backtrack.

    And the less said about your sarcastic Glory Man United comment the better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,884 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    You cut a pretty pathetic figure, and are the last person to be accusing others of viewing politics and serious issues of war and peace as a soccer match.

    Would guess from your posts that you just hate the US govt. so much you want to see them humbled here and their efforts to rescue Ukraine ultimately defeated by Russia.

    So you hope against hope Putin can pull the irons out of the fire and get some kind of "win" (and wound the US, that's the main thing/big picture - who cares how it affects us in Europe let alone Ukraine or its people), seeking out confirmatory sources like these Trumpy ex US military people who will tell you things are going much better than generally reported for the Russian military and much worse for Ukraine.

    You post from a cozy little nest in a country safely on other side of Europe from the Russians with a load of fairly well armed NATO militaries placed conveniently in between (and the "Evil" US guarding the other direction!), so we're all right jack. It's kind of a bit sick making tbh. Already was before Putin invaded and it is just worse now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Again there not the 2nd most corrupt country in Europe, just like Manchester united isn't the biggest club in the world, one opinion doesn't make it true ,

    Ukraine hasn't banned the Ukrainian Orthodox church either,they have clamped down on the Russian church in Ukraine who's priests are all decorated members of the FSB , and loyal to the Kremlin,

    Of course they are going to gain attention from the Ukrainans why wouldn't they ,a spy ring masquerading as a church, they should all be detained and deported back to Russia and all of their properties sized and transferred to the Ukrainans church or given to the Ukrainan population to use for community groups and education

    An example of a Russian Orthodox priest,very decorated by the FSB




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Good to see the Guards doing their job and preventing some wannabe mercenaries from travelling to Ukraine, I wonder how people feel if they knew that in some cases Ukraine was accepting applications to join its military from teenagers with no experience.

    To be honest, only the mentally damaged and those with a death wish would travel to fight in Ukraine, especially now.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Can't beat the lure of adventure and danger , hasn't been a war yet that didn't feature young impressionable men going off to war to show their bravery for country and some young ladies hand .

    Mercenaries are paid former or serving soldiers who are hired for their skill sets



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The article makes it clear that the Ukrainians aren't doing any background checks. They are simply asking people to self-certify that they have previous policing or military experience there are no further checks. If the people recruited simply say that they have the required experience.

    Surely even you can't be ok with how lax they are being when recruiting what are essentially children to fight on the front line some with psychological issues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    But it's not the Ukrainans recruiting them it's a foreign legion fighting along side the Ukrainan military that's doing the recruiting,

    The Ukrainan military is already turning volunteers away and have been for best part of a year .

    The Gardai are doing a good job, but military intelligence should be at the forefront along with investments in the defense forces



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The foreign legion is part of the Ukrainian military so whether you like it or not, they are part of the recruitment process and they could put a stop to it anytime they felt like it.

    But then again it doesn't surprise me that the same military that is dragging men off the street and forcefully conscripting them is ok with recruiting what are essentially school kids and sending them towards their deaths. I do hope The Irish mercenaries come back alive or if not at least they have a quick death rather than suffering.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,446 ✭✭✭jmreire


    According to you, its a simple matter of turning up in Ukraine, being handed a weapon, and pointed in the general direction of the front lines ??? Really? The legion, who are responsible for recruiting foreigners who wish to aid Ukraine and fight Fascism, have pretty strict criteria for anyone wishing to join their ranks. There are a lot of steps before you get handed a weapon, never mind going to a front ( or indeed any) line. If accepted, an assessment will be undergone and based on the results, the volunteer will be assigned a role in keeping with his previous experience, be it Military, Medical or Logistics or "Other" functional activity that could be used militarily. Age, and general health will have a major influence on assessment outcomes.

    So No, its not like the Russian Army where ALL recruits are welcome, regardless of circumstances, willing or unwilling. All that the Russians require is that their recruits / conscripts be vertical and breathing at the time of joining. And of course, there are no guarantees as to how long that status will be maintained.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A direct quote from the Irish times article since you clearly didn't read it properly.

    "The Irish Times has learned that men in their late teens and early 20s have signed up for and been accepted to join the war effort despite having no combat experience and, in some cases, no military experience whatsoever."

    You are capable of reading the rest of the article yourself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I'd imagine you could sign up for the Russian military to fight the neo Nazi's CIA sponsored Ukrainan junta.


    If you wanted .



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Just curious Gatling. Why haven't you signed up for the Ukrainian military? Surely you must have some military experience since you are so pro-war. Or are you only happy sitting behind a screen taking a check from the US government?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,670 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Ukraine has been, and by most accounts continues to be, oversubscribed with volunteers. Where is this "dragging men off the street" stuff coming from?

    Men have been lying about their age and background to join armies since the dawn of time. If they lie about their military experience I'm sure they will get found out sooner rather than later. Ukraine does not exactly have massive resources to spare to investigate all of these men.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    @[Deleted User]

    "since you are so pro-war"


    I'm not pro war, just pro Ukrainian and anti putin,



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,428 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    No school kids been recruited according to the article.

    So when did young men become school kids.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Mod Note

    Read the charter. Serious political discussion only. If you want to engage in petty bickering, open a Twitter account.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Then the article should have been clearer with its language. They said people recently out of school which many would interpret as school aged kids.

    Not that it changes much it's still wrong in my opinion to recruit inexperienced adults.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,446 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Yes I have read the article, and it bears out what I said about the recruitment process. In the article it says that after the Ukraine authorities were made aware of various shortcomings in the applicants, their contracts were cancelled, and they were sent home. You go there, telling them that you have military experience, they will ask you what weapons you are familiar with, so they take you to the firing range, hand you your weapon of choice, show you the target, and say literally " Fire way". Then either you are what you said you were, or you were lying, and its end of story for you, at least in that specialty. And rightly so. They are putting their lives in their comrades hands, and vice-versa, so bullsh""trs and wannabe hero's need not apply.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,375 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Then the article should have been clearer with its language.

    Or maybe the reader should be more circumspect in what they take from the article.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,664 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    What possible benefit is it to send a green totally inexperienced teenager looking for adventure and excitement into the heart of the conflict in Donbas only to be killed, or worse seriously wounded, in the first blast of a Russian fusillade?

    Having an injured foreigner takes up too much of the scarce resources, so why risk it?

    Being trained might help, but not speaking the language is a huge problem. Putting them clearing rubble might be the best strategy if they allow them in, but not allowing them in is better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,446 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Yes, and even worse, getting the professional Ukrainian/other soldiers killed while trying to protect or rescue the newcomers. This is not a game. There has been cases where professional Legion soldiers that were interviewed said that they found the war in Ukraine to be far deadlier than anything they have previously experienced. And these guys would be far from novices.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,446 ✭✭✭jmreire


    And speak of the devil, as it happens, on the other Ukraine / Russian war thread, this has just been posted. Two motivated and well meaning volunteers have gone missing.

    Ukraine war: Family of missing Briton Christopher Parry 'very worried right now' | World News | Sky News



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Looks like Soladar has finally fallen into Russian hands. Although there is some good news, the Ukrainian soldiers that were held up in the town surrounded by Russian forces have apparently surrendered ahead of the midnight deadline they were given to surrender.

    I'm sure all sides can agree avoiding unnecessary deaths is always a positive.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Links to Ukrainan soldiers surrendering and who and when was there a deadline issued calling on Ukrainian forces to surrender in soldar ??,

    First mention of such was when you posted above, being following this closely all week and by all accounts the Ukrainans aren't surrounded,and didn't see anyone mentioning a deadline to surrender either

    Post edited by Gatling on


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