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Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

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  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Spare me.

    The Burkes do not know the meaning of the words "respect" or "dignity" or how to respect the rights of others.

    They have demonstrated this on multiple occasions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭Gunner5


    The school is a Church of Ireland school. They had respected the students wish to be called they/them so I don't think it's the school here that done anything wrong. ( I am open to correction)


    Secondly, Enoch Burke was home schooled and had no moulding of the churches in Ireland at all... his beliefs were pushed on to him from elsewhere



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    I'm not sure about primary schools but I know from my own kids at "catholic" secondary school ( no real choice available) and the fact that I work in a "catholic" secondary school that church is not front and center.

    We had a carol service and there will be an annual mass, that is about the extent of the Church involvement. Definitely no obligation for daily prayers etc.

    My strong preference would be no church involvement but in my experience the involvement is fairly minimal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,491 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    There are teachers out there who are homophobic and would be disgusted if a pupil came out and discussed their sexuality in anyway at school.

    There are teachers who discuss climate change and they believe it's a farce but they keep their views to themselves.

    Similarly we've teachers teaching refugees who think they shouldn't be in the class and we should look after our own first.

    The list goes on.

    There job is to teach the class in a safe environment where the pupils feel safe and welcome and keep their views to themselves.

    Teachers and workers in all fields have being doing it for decades.

    You get along with it and if you've an issue you deal with in a certain way. You don't hassle your manager/boss/etc at a function.





  • If they’re that uncompromising in their daily life then they should work somewhere that subscribes to their feelings.

    If Burke worked as say an architect would it be acceptable that he refuse to take clients who were gay or trans? What about Muslims?

    If he was a chef could he refuse to serve food to people in the same bracket? What about if someone on his team was gay or trans can he then refuse to work with them because of this?

    There’s no place for uncompromising bigotry or exclusion in this day and age. Being a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, whatever it is does not entitle you to behave in a disgraceful fashion because it’s what you believe. It’s not any different (like it or not) to me strolling into work with me lad hanging out, cos it’s my belief clothes are a sin.

    Don’t tell me to put pants on. I don’t believe in them.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Try going for interview for a teaching post in the school. It’s still a bit ridiculous to be having a school mass in this day and age.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,009 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    That wasn't for the case they took against the life ban on membership of University societies. They lost that case.

    Issac Burke got that 13k payout for a case he took against the university because of a delay in scheduling his final 'viva' exam for his PhD. A completely different case.





  • I wonder how many times it has to be repeated that it’s NOT about his beliefs it’s about his behaviour?

    Exactly like you said you can be sure as sure that other teachers/faculty in the school are anti trans/gay/whatever and will not be impressed by this, but they also know it’s not their job to decide who and who not to teach. And if there’s a legitimate reason (or somewhat legit) not to teach a certain student the school can deal with that.

    In cases where for example a student and teacher just don’t get along, as I would imagine Enoch and this student wouldn’t get along terribly well, I’m sure they could look into placing them in a different class so everyone’s happy.

    But here we just have a man baby who wanted to be offended by something and in typical Burke fashion made a fcuking scene.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    The school I work in has protestant teachers. A school mass may be ridiculous but once a year is certainly not front and center.

    I don't disagree I would prefer no church involvement. I live in a mid size town, my preferred option would have been mixed non denominational school. The only options apart from the single sex Catholic schools was the etb school or the Gaelscoil, neither suited.

    Although neither of my kids are religious they got on fine at school. Plenty of Muslim, Hindu, non religious pupils there also.

    My point is that although I would prefer no church involvement, most schools in my opinion do not push religion above all else.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    No he couldnt do any of that as he would be breaking equality laws

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,065 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    I wonder how many times it has to be repeated that clearly his actions/ behaviour are a consequence of his beliefs? Why on earth else would he be motivated thus?



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    So what though. Lots of have beliefs but we dont go out of our way to cause hassle for others because of our beliefs.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭Ashbourne hoop


    I would have been aware of them long before then. As I said a simple Google would have told the school all they need to know.

    Burke family (Castlebar) - Wikipedia



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    That just isn't true. His actions/behaviour are a consequence of his personality.





  • plenty of Christian and catholics (teachers included) that don’t behave like Burke. His beliefs in God are not why he behaves this way, it’s his upbringing.

    I wonder do you so readily excuse Muslim husbands who beat their wives and children, because it’s “their belief”.

    Of course he couldn’t. That’s the point, if you want to behave in such an uncompromising way regarding your belief system then you cannot interact effectively with modern society. religion is not an excuse to behave backwards and you certainly can’t expect everyone to subscribe exclusively to your beliefs (not saying you personally speaking generally).



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Exactly. Imagine if he was a Biology teacher I wonder evolution get taught in his class.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,009 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    I very much doubt their mammy taught them biology at all. Filthy stuff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    Id love to see him working in a bakery up north :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 913 ✭✭✭buzzerxx




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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,608 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Deleted



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,608 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    You keep saying this as if it means something significant, but it doesn't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,065 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    He's an Evangelical type Christian as I understand, apparently doesn't believe in transgenderism as no biblical evidence etc This type of conviction goes hand in hand with personality. You hardly expect someone to be an Evangelical Christian and then swallow their principles at the drop of a hat? Otherwise they wouldn't be an Evangelical Christian, they'd be hypocrites.

    So maybe he's not suited to teaching but then you could equally argue that Catholic doctrine has no place in education, where clearly it does in practice in many national schools.

    It's difficult for Burke to be in a minority position and to stand up for what he believes in. The question is will he be tolerated in this by society or cancelled. Judging by here, cancelling is the choice of most.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    So what's the story with this, if he broke a court order has he been arrested again ? Or is he free(physically) to go back to the school today ?

    Also, I wonder what he did when he went to the school, seeing as he is suspended from his role as teacher.

    As it is a secondary school full of teenagers, I suspect the majority as laughing their asses off at this whole drama



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    He can stand up for what he believes in without disrupting a mass and verbally abusing the school principal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,065 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    ?? Of course his actions are a consequence of his beliefs. Take another group that took a difficult and personally costly stance - the Dunnes Stores workers who refused to handle South African produce during the apartheid era and who lost their jobs. Their laudable actions were a consequence of their moral compass & beliefs in what was right. Obviously you can't equate the two issues but the actions according to beliefs of the respective people are/ were similar. This is his broad defence as I understand it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Obviously you can't equate the two issues 

    you can't but by god you are going to try in order to explain his behaviour.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,009 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    It's all in the media repotting about the case over the past few days. Yes he's physically free to go back to the school. No, he has not been re-arrested (that would require the School going to the court to tell them that he hasn't been obeying the court order - and they haven't done that because it would likely delay the disciplinary hearing they have against him later this month).

    When he went to the school on Friday, he hung around a corridor fir the day and didn't have any interaction with students, according to the media reports.

    And yes, I'd say they're laughing at him. Who wouldn't enjoy the drama at that age?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    If Enoch Burke had simply point blank refused to adhere to the school's request to refer to the pupil by their preferred pronoun he would probably been fine. It very difficult to get rid of a full time teacher so unless he was breaking an actual law the school might have difficulty enforcing it's request.

    So it is not true to say he was doing this for personal reasons, he deliberately provoked a confrontation with school management on this issue to make a point. It did not need to affect his day to day work. He could simply have quietly refused to use the child's preferred pronouns and there is very little anyone could do.



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  • It’s actually quare funny that you’re using an example of a morally just movement to explain away Enoch burkes man baby tantrum.

    Those women were fighting AGAINST inequality Enoch Burke is fighting FOR inequality.

    How dare you compare them.



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