Do smart meters cost you more

Yep, there was a recent article in the Indo saying pretty much that...

My smart meter was installed last year and I looked at the plans, but came to the same conclusion - it would only cost me more as I WFH and don't really have a choice (or inclination) to be monitoring when I should put a wash on etc.

Thankfully you do NOT have to switch plans even after they put the meter in. Eamon Ryan was waffling about that last year too, but did mention there should be an opt-out included. Long story short, the meter is no issue.. just make sure they don't switch you to a different plan unless you're happy to.

Any link to this? I thought the smart meter could facilitate a day/ night plan as long as you stayed with your day/ night plan.

I have a smart meter but I'm not on a smart plan. Just signed on a regular price per unit regardless of time or day.

Seeing a few articles out on IT and the like about how very few people sign on to smart plans I gave them a gander and quickly realised why. I believe they are more expensive on average, for an average person. Electric Ireland for reference, I pay the 39.59c on the left. Because I generally sleep 11pm to 8am exactly and consume no electricity. Lights are off. Heating is gas.

I'd only consider these plans if I worked odd hours maybe evenings or night so that I could do any chores during that 11pm to 8am window. Laundry, dryer, dish washer, hoover. That could be a neat way to save money. But I don't mind having the meter, it's actually handy because I'm not bugged for readings anymore and switching is a bit cleaner.

The other problem with that example is that your neighbours might not be thrilled if you were running hoovers and washing machines at 3am - especially given the generally very poor sound insulation between houses/apartments in many cases.

Smart meter cannot support D/N tariff that replicates current D/N plans that 270k consumers ae currently using,(anybody on D/N meters that are offered smart meters at the moment should refuse them IMO) there have been numerous threads and news articles but have a look this latest thread for more info.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058278418/meter-tariff-compatibility#latest

If you have a heat pump and EV you are likely being rode, price wise, unless you are on a day night meter and a day night tariff, and not a smart or 24hr one.

😂 You dont work for esb by any chance,the best deals out there at the moment is an old fashioned D/N rate on an old D/N meter but you appear to have overlooked that,270k consumers currently on old D/N systems.

I hope you agree that best estimate that is based on long term observation, more data - more accurate it might be. Good thing is that D/N digital meter does show D usage / N usage and combined total (aka 24h)

How about estimate over 11years? I know, prices were changing over years etc, etc., but main point is kWh usage during day/night and how it fits with smart tariffs. Anyway, here it come....

Based on my digital meter readings today since it was installed( ESB seal dated Oct2011).

Based on kWh* + St charge prices (Inc. VAT) advertised on SSE as of today, 11Jan2023, for Standard plan(rural), no discounts taken in to consideration, PSO = 0 as per SSE

*Assumption that SPeak time usage is same pace as the rest of SDay time, 86.67/13.33 % of Dt kWh based on SDt/SPt duration. This defo wont be correct as we would be at work/school during 08:00-16:00 , but cannot determine kWh % ratio to be reasonably accurate, so be it. My guess is 70/30 at least, even 60/40(el cooker+oven, diner time @18:00), see what happens with these % in addition.

Note: loss is over 11year meter data at current prices on SSE

Note2: this calculation only apply to me, yours could well be different

Wonder if anyone would have their Dt/Nt ratio and share, just to see how bad i am in this regard

Let me know if you see inconsistency/mistakes in my calculation.

So for me:

Conclusion1 - smart tariffs sucks compare to D/N for me and if take * note into account, it is worse than 24h tariff. (match to 24H would be SDt/SPt @ 80/20 ratio)

Conclusion2 - saving 900 over 11year(D/N vs 24h) is not that hugely significant(~€7 p/m at current prices), unless usage would significantly move toward Nt, which is unlikely. Also, St charge reduces benefit of D/N good bit. Same could be said about loss on smart plan. It is what it is, not to say €7 per month is worthless.

Conclusion3 - Smart meters do not effect your bill directly - its purpose to count kWh, only if you are lured/forced into smart plan, smart tariffs do(would for me). All personal "like/dislike" data pumped out from you etc. - If there would not be personal data involved(which apparently is), there would not be GDPR/consent issue, but this is separate story i guess.

What is the point to have smart readings every 30 min or so, if you are charged @ 13, 9, 2 hour intervals? I mean for consumer. Oh i know - i could get that SDt/SPt @ % ratio. Then what? Another promise like "on diet from 1st of Jan" or "quit smoke" that never lasted more than a week.

If you conscious about saving you are already doing it where you can. If you are not - SM does not do that for you, you need to learn tariffs and clock, then change your habits. Or you just don't care and pay.

I have a smart meter and switched to a smart plan this year and its the best thing I did.

4 bed rural house and December bill was €153, November was €137. Effectively Nov/Dec was about €90 after gov credit and we are not in an A rated new build. Rating is D, but heating is oil. (includes hot water)

Washing machine and dishwasher are the biggest users. Both on on the express setting. Both run after 11pm.

Tumble dryer is put on at 6am or put on a timer to run at night.

The analytics shows exact cost per 30min time of use, so we can see what it costs us at night versus daytime. A small amount of effort can literally save you hundreds of euro

Remind me , when have you seen rates drop... ☺️

Standard digital meter, capable to do 5 tariffs + "negative" that i guess for feeding energy back to the grid. Smart enough for metering purpose, but without radio beacon.

How many tariffs can new one do i wonder?

So there should be no problem (from meter perspective) to stay on any tariff (24, D/N ) with SM. In some other thread i read that there apparently is, potentialy indicating that util companies just flat decline to do so.

You cannot stay on a day night tariff if you are moved to a smart meter. There is currently no crossover between MCC02 and RM106 smart meters. The smart meters only cover MCC01, MCC12 and MCC16

Nope. Keep the digital meter.

There's a new smart meter configuration coming out under RM107 that will cover MCC02, MCC12 and MCC16 (but not MCC01) which you will be able to get a smart meter and keep day night tariff. Not possible yet.

They basically wanted to make a splash I'd say, and the biggest group of users in the domestic space are on MCC01 - standard 24hr rates - and the smart meters on RM106 can cover that MCC as well as MCC12 and MCC16.

They must have forgotten or not known simply that MCC02 had two main usage registers and a smart meter with only one simply wouldnt cut it. So they have to get more in under a different configuration. These will be known as RM107. Both RM106 (all smart meters currently installed) and RM107 (the smart meter than can do MCC02) are not interchangeable - the former cannot do MCC02 and the latter cannot do MCC01, but, in time, these MCCs will be phased out in all likelihood and replaced with MCC12, MCC16 and others

I dont think they would need to do anything. There's no crossover between MCC01 and MCC02 on the same smart meter. If you had MCC01 for instance, 24hr rate, and activate a smart meter to MCC12/16, you can never go to a non smart tariff again. Means MCC02 (and MCC01) isnt available anymore to you.

Same in reverse if you are on MCC02. You can (soon) get an RM107 smart meter that will do MCC02, until you activate and go to MCC12/16. Once you go smart, again, you can't go back. So you cant for instance go MCC01-MCC12-MCC02 for instance, the meters wont do it and the ESBn dont allow it anyway. If you go MCC01 - MCC02, its a meter exchange same as now.

It's not going away from the topic, IMO, as it's important to understand the different metering options to clearly assess if smart meters cost you more.

Some of the newest non smart meters can be programmed to do MCC01 or MCC02, yes. But not all. And on the ESBn side, there's always a meter exchange job created and an engineer sent to site. If they see on site that the meter can do D/N for instance, its a software change. But if it's an older one, then they need to physically swap the meters.

In the future, we will have two meter codes for smart meters, currently all domestic smart meters are RM106 type but the newer ones for people currently on MCC02 will be RM107. Ultimately we will all have them installed, I suspect.

Wasnt aware of "old non smart", know analog and digital, perhaps there are digital that can only do 24H or only D/N

Anyway, i fail get my head around how "smart" cannot do all/any out of three tariffs, this like primary school math on the scrap paper, what to talk about sophisticated programs

i get that, firmware/software config to enter on meter t0=00-24, t1=08:00-23:00, t2=.... SAVE

"Smart" is just to dumb to do that, isn't it, despite available remote access, no need to get engineer on site, etc. Perhaps i dont know someething about it 😊

Would you agree, that at the moment, with current MCC01 MCC02 partial/incompatability its decreased in that prospective. Flexibility reduced and consummer options limited.

Unless the plan was/is to get rid of 24H/D/N and enroll ALL of us on smart tariff only.

i speculating here, but with "sweet talk" now, they promiss you option to stay on your current tariff for now. As was advised by ELM327, there is no return if you activate "smart" and apparently you can no longer switch between 24H / D/N if you got new meter but didnt activate - limited by meter itself

Was this advertised anywhere / user informed? I didnt come acros, nor i saw on leaflet they sent that user have option to decline.

When consumer is not provided with clarity it stinks...

things getting confusing...

My digital meter has t0, t1, t2 and counter t0=combined t1+t2 - would i still need meter replacement with this capability, should i choose to swich from MCC02-to-MCC01( or other way around) or just logical re-assigment at the ESB/suppl side?

Site visit necessary. If new type of non smart meter (ie digital) that is capable of 24hr and DN, then no action. Otherwise replace the meter.

However, from a supply company end, all meter type changes must be accompanied by a meter exchange request on the networks extranet.

No, they swap out the meter if the existing one cannot do the new tariff. I had a smart meter at the house when I bought it, we changed to Day Night and they came and removed the smart meter and replaced with a day night

I said the below, and I dont think I'm misreading. I'm also talking about change 24 to DN on the old digital meters.

Site visit necessary. If new type of non smart meter (ie digital) that is capable of 24hr and DN, then no action. Otherwise replace the meter.