NI Dec 22 Assembly Election

L1011 · 09-01-2023 9:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087362#Comment_120087362

"Nonsensical rules" caused by the party you are going to vote for

Why are you unable to realise this?

The DUP are the cause of all of these rules, and voting for them is never going to be the solution.

Jump_In_Jack · 09-01-2023 9:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087331#Comment_120087331

So to go back to the point of my question to you, you would support the DUP, and my point was that devolved government in NI would be welcomed by everyone except the supporters of the DUP which you would clearly be.

So you keep saying you want rid of the protocol yet you don’t want a land border, and you don’t want the UK to make any concessions to the EU to change the agreement, and you don’t think the DUP should be spending all its time trying to get the UK government to act on its behalf, meanwhile preventing the majority of NI citizens the benefits of having a devolved government.

I gave you the example of the health service needing a devolved government to address issues and draw down funds, you haven’t responded to that criticism, why do you think it is a good thing to make sick people pay for something that has no relation to them, i.e. a squabble between a minority of unionists and the UK government for ignoring them?

downcow · 09-01-2023 9:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087356#Comment_120087356

You are the person had a problem with me equating the feelings and hurt of the people on the garvaghy road. Let me try your own words in their situation….

"reports", "feel" and "believe". No actual content. Just some slightly hurt feelings, and very little to show for actual problems.”

now I live here so I would not try and wind people up by saying they should just look the other way for 10 mins. Life is more complex that that. “Feel” “believe” are incredibly important emotions. You need to step back and try to see this from the others position

Seth Brundle · 09-01-2023 9:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087362#Comment_120087362

These "nonsensical" rules were in place pro-Brexit and the UK was quite content with them until they left and found that the benefits of being a member of the EU didn't apply to them. HMG and the DUP were told that a hard brexit would cause issues moving goods and this was to be avoided in everyone's best interest.

The backstop would have solved this but the DUP blocked this.

What you are blaming on the EU is completely down to the form of Brexit chosen by HMG and supported by the DUP.

This is not an 'I told you so": this is telling you that if you want to oppose the protocol then fine, but don't support those that caused its necessity!

L1011 · 09-01-2023 9:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087385#Comment_120087385

I can see the other position perfectly well, thanks; but I have no idea what on earth you are referring to the Garvaghy Road for. Did the AI suggest that too?

The other position is based on the party that caused the entire thing in the first place whipping up peoples feelings over basically nothing. Its nonsensical, its irrational and you are completely subscribed to it.

If any stepping back is required here, its from those who are against the protocol because it has hurt their feelings - while it is boosting the NI economy and providing a basis to keep the GFA; neither of which would happen if it was torn up.

FrancieBrady · 09-01-2023 9:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087362#Comment_120087362

Great Britain is a 3rd country now. If they didn’t realize what that means that is their own fault.

The Protocol eases Brexit for Northern Ireland and will remain. The choreography is well advanced now.

downcow · 09-01-2023 9:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087384#Comment_120087384

I didn’t respond because it is so obviously a red herring. Stormont has existed for 25 years and has refused to take the decisions necessary. It has been operating only 60% of those 25 years. The biggest developments have taken place during the 40% of time it has been suspended. The shinners had it down for 3 years recently and it made zero difference to the running of the country. I doubt it will ever operate again. Westminster will just get on with running the place. It’s not a big deal. It wasn’t the reason our community signed up to gfa. Those of us who voted yes did so to secure self determination for our people. That is not dependant on stormont operating.

downcow · 09-01-2023 9:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087407#Comment_120087407

You are making my point for me.

you say “The other position is based on the party that caused the entire thing in the first place whipping up peoples feelings over basically nothing. Its nonsensical, its irrational and you are completely subscribed to it.”

have you read the papers just released on the period of garvaghy (and other) residents groups. Your above paragraph is spot on.

I hope other posters can seen the reason for the equivalence. It is not to minimise the hurt and pain of the people on the garvaghy road, quite the contrary. It is to demonstrate how important a feelings are

L1011 · 09-01-2023 9:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087497#Comment_120087497

I have no idea what you're talking about Garvaghy for

Your main opposition to the protocol is because of hurt feelings. Not anything real. And the feelings are hurt because the party you now vote for caused them to be hurt.

Blame the DUP for the protocol. Don't support them for it.

Jump_In_Jack · 09-01-2023 9:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087473#Comment_120087473

It’s not a red herring to point out there are people suffering in NI due to the stance taken by the DUP which you support.

Their stance is having no effect on the UK government, yet the DUP with your support continue to block all the other parties from getting on with running NI and trying to deliver better outcomes for all of the people in NI.

downcow · 09-01-2023 9:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087403#Comment_120087403

They were in place over international borders. I can live with a dog from newry needing a vaccine prior to crossing the international border to Dundalk. It is silly but if that is what the eu wants then so be it. What would be unreasonable would be a foreign power telling Ireland that any dog moving from Wexford to Waterford needs vaccinated for a disease that does not exist in either county

L1011 · 09-01-2023 9:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087511#Comment_120087511

If only the UK had decided to continue providing enough information and agreed to keep certain standards that animal safety rules could be considered the same...

But no, that was one of the "red lines" that the DUP wholeheartedly supported. Go blame the DUP for this, they caused it.

downcow · 09-01-2023 9:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087505#Comment_120087505

I have listed some of the ‘real’ stuff, but like the garvaghy residents, that pails into insignificance compared to the hurt which you can’t bear to even consider as an issue. Did you think the hurt of the good people of the garvaghy road was irrelevant and that the only issue was the 7 mins of a single drum beat on a Sunday morning?.

I can’t believe you are so detached from feelings

L1011 · 09-01-2023 9:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087537#Comment_120087537

What on earth are you banging on about Garvaghy for?

I have never conversed with you about it before and I have zero intent of every doing so. Please stop trying to use it as a distraction for whatever reason.

downcow · 09-01-2023 9:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087542#Comment_120087542

Not a distraction. I’ll change it if you like as it seems to irk you.

min my local town a isolated street is being targeted at weekends with eggs thrown at cars and sectarian shouting. Nothing that is really going to harm anyone and nothing that 5 mins with a hose won’t wash off. But it’s the feelings and the hurt that our the issue. Do you really not get it? That emotions are incredibly powerful and that emotions were one of the big catalysts behind 1,000s of murders in ni.

L1011 · 09-01-2023 9:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087578#Comment_120087578

Vandalism and sectarian shouting are real things.

The nonsense over the protocol is nearly entirely hurt feelings over absolutely nothing.

These two things are not comparable.

If your hurt feelings over the protocol are that important, you need to learn the blame those responsible for it.

The DUP. Who you intend to vote for.

FrancieBrady · 09-01-2023 10:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087588#Comment_120087588

All succinctly displayed today in Bryson’s ‘paper’ on what is required. Donaldson, Allister, Hoey and Bridgen etc all welcomed what is basically a demand to give Unionism it’s veto back.

And it of course blames everyone but those unionism is loyal to for the cul de sac they find themselves in.

Seth Brundle · 09-01-2023 10:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087511#Comment_120087511

Again, you are failing to understand the protocol. It is not the EU that have introduced checks between NI and Britain. It was HMG, despite Johnson's waffle that there would never be checks. These were introduced via the NIP which was proposed by the UK government and agreed with by the EU. Had HMG agreed to the original backstop then those checks wouldn't have been there but the DUP blocked this leaving HMG with pretty much no option but to agree to the border down the Irish sea.

You cannot continue to deny that you know this as you have been told it countless times. The backstop that you oppose (along with various other unionists) is a solution directly created by London because of the DUP. The EU did not create it.

downcow · 09-01-2023 11:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087744#Comment_120087744

I’ve told you many times, we need to park the history and the history lessons. We are where we are.

i am not sure what you want me to say. Here is what most unionists believe and we have had to pull the dup back from it’s nonsense and incompetency. But unionism is strong whether the dup is or not

FrancieBrady · 10-01-2023 12:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088033#Comment_120088033

And the Protocol is still here while the British and EU agree some flexibilities between them.

Seth Brundle · 10-01-2023 12:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088033#Comment_120088033

It's not a history lesson. You keep blaming the EU for this, that and the other and I simply clarified that you are wrong to do so. The EU have not imposed the protocol on you. Your government and the party you support did. By your continual blaming the EU you are effectively giving a free pass to those responsible. Why should they try to act in your favour going forwards if they reckon you'll just blame the EU when you don't get what you want?

downcow · 10-01-2023 5:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088172#Comment_120088172

And I keep telling you that our community are blaming the dup, Uk, roi and eu.

but we realise that the Uk can’t get a fair agreement unless eu agree to it - that’s common sense. And The eu won’t agree to changes if the roi side are telling them that if they do that then the Irish will become violent and restart the terrorist campaign.

Peregrinus · 10-01-2023 8:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088429#Comment_120088429

You tell us that you're blaming the DUP, but you also tell us that you're voting for the DUP.

We look at what you do, not at what you say, Downcow. You're not blaming the DUP; you're rewarding them.

Your second paragraph is nonsense, and you know it. IRL has never, ever said that if the Protocol is removed or amended violence will restart - never anything remotely close to this. Never anything even an idiot in a hurry could possibly mistake for this.

I remind you, yet again, that the EU, with full IRL backing, has already agreed a version of the WA with no Protocol included, with no threats of violence on anyone's part. It's the UK that won't have it. Because you already know this, you also know that what you say in your second paragraphs is a grotesque, Trumpian misrepresentation of the truth, a fig-leaf to justify your continued rewarding of the DUP for their continued support of the hard Brexit which the Protocol was introduced to facilitate.

martinedwards · 10-01-2023 8:41am

One policy politics is what the DUP are all about.

take away the division and the DUP cease to be.

IMHO what everyone SHOULD be doing is looking at Singapore....

Northern Ireland has the opportunity to be a channel into and out of the EU.

companies who have spotted this are making a fortune.

there's a business that makes sandwiches for supermarkets.... in Newry I think.... exporting to Ireland and GB and have massively increased production.

The DUP want to keep their powerbase in their Ghettos and screw everyone else.

over the years I've gone from voting for them (Im ashamed!) to now holding both passports, and the only thing keeping me from voting for a united Ireland is healthcare costs..... mind you, the NHS is on it's knees and might not last much longer.....

FrancieBrady · 10-01-2023 9:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088429#Comment_120088429

The UK have had a suite of agreements now...but won't adhere to any of them.

That's the problem.

Seth Brundle · 10-01-2023 11:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088429#Comment_120088429

And I keep telling you that our community are blaming the dup, Uk, roi and eu.

Well given that the DUP are the largest unionist party, I'll make a confident claim that the are like you - blame the DUP but still vote for them.

As for blaming the UK - I'm not sure I can recall when the unionist parties did this. I don't recall when oyu even did this as you tend to blame Leo, the Irish government and the EU (just like in the following paragraph...)

but we realise that the Uk can’t get a fair agreement unless eu agree to it - that’s common sense. And The eu won’t agree to changes if the roi side are telling them that if they do that then the Irish will become violent and restart the terrorist campaign.

In fairness to Leo, he didn't want any violence from anyone. The UK chose to leave which risked the fragile peace in NI. Everyone was right to point out that any form of Brexit must take this peace into account. The UK government felt that their only option (after the DUP scuppered any other option) was for what we have now.

Blaming the EU for protecting its internal market while at the same time HMG was threatening to unilaterally change the agreement is not what yiu describe above. In fact, what you have described above is in your head because while it was mentioned once prior to any agreement, it is not this ongoing threat or whatever you think it is. Currently the EU and HMG are in negotiations about easing the flexibilities within the protocol. The UK are now introducing the IT infrastructure they promised for a few years ago. This will make importing into NI much smoother.

As for the "Uk can’t get a fair agreement unless eu agree to it" - this is patently untrue. The UK have an agreement. They have the NIP which is part of the WA. This is what they asked for and they got it: they are not looking for a new agreement.

However, the fact that no sooner had the ink dried on this international agreement, they started flexing muscles and asking for it to be removed or changed. This was all done for the home market as Tory PR and not once did they make formal requests to change either the NIP or the WA.

All discussions between the EU and the UK since the WA was put into international law have been around the flexibilities built into the NIP and WA. There is no discussion about a new agreement. However, the news last night was that the UK is beginning to introduce the IT checks which is a good thing. According to James Cleverly, the talks are progressing well so it doesn't sound like the UK aren't getting what they want from these talks.

downcow · 10-01-2023 9:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088494#Comment_120088494

This is incredible. You say “Your second paragraph is nonsense, and you know it. IRL has never, ever said that if the Protocol is removed or amended violence will restart - never anything remotely close to this. Never anything even an idiot in a hurry could possibly mistake for this.”

i know we disagree on stuff but I thought we all knew what Leo said. Loyalists have quoted his words exactly and used the same image he held up at the eu dinner and everyone is saying it is a sinister threat by loyalists. You can’t have it both ways. Leo was very wrong to do what he did and I trust he will admit soon that he got that wrong as well.

here is what a nationalist politician said when loyalists replicated Leo’s spake

“These posters are a vile attempt to incite people to violence using the most appalling imagery of a horrific attack on Talbot Street in Dublin which killed 14 people – it has no place in any community in north Belfast and those responsible have nothing to offer," he said.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/12/20/news/sinister_varadkar_posters_threatening_a_return_to_violence_are_designed_to_threaten_-2950842/

so there you go.

downcow · 10-01-2023 9:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088523#Comment_120088523

Some of us care about more than money and lining our own nest.

But hey you are fully entitled to join the 25% who want to join roi We are pretty safe when even you wouldn’t chuck in your British passport and risk paying for you loved ones health care. I’m guessing you might have been born in the unionist community. Watch you don’t bump into the crowds of nationalists going the other way as you cross the UI divide.

downcow · 10-01-2023 9:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088910#Comment_120088910

We have every right to oppose our government. Surely you don’t think that every citizen should just accept what ever their government does. There is next to zero chance of the current negotiations solving the matter and reenstating the assembly. It’s not happening. It’s just a step on a long road.

Seth Brundle · 10-01-2023 9:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120091742#Comment_120091742

But you and the unionists aren't opposing your government. You are pinning the blame on Irish politicians and the responsibility to fix things on the EU. Look at your reply this evening to @Peregrinus - it's like you are obsessed with Leo Varadkar for some weird reason.

It's quite tedious to be honest!

NI Dec 22 Assembly Election

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