Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

Furze99 · 10-01-2023 12:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088955#Comment_120088955

Your argument just gets shakier and weaker. One person's disagreement is another's row is another's abuse. These are all questions of degree and interpretation. Who hasn't had a row and let things get out of hand a bit in terms of what was said? As far as we know, Burke did not physically assault the principal or anyone else. The principal/ school should have anticipated what could happen once they suspended him, that's what set the current train of events in motion.

hynesie08 · 10-01-2023 12:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088945#Comment_120088945

The case should be viewed on your completely made up scenarios? I'd rather it was viewed and the truth tbh.

I suspect Burke rightly wants the issue heard in the courts whilst the school wishes to avoid the courts if at all possible.

Then why is burke trying to get the hearing canceled?

You don't actually know what's happening do you.

10-01-2023 12:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089284#Comment_120089284

Oh would you listen to yourself for a second. You’re still bending over backwards to blame the school!?

How is it that they are to blame because Enoch Burke is a bloody man baby? I’m sorry but if you carry on like he did— on NUMEROUS occasions you WILL be the subject of dislplincary procedures. The fact is it’s Enoch vs the witness they say he was shouting/accosting he said he wasn’t. The evidence is stacked against him, so the schools board of management felt there was enough of an issue here to begin dislplincary procedures, which would be detailed in his contract of employment, meaning he agreed to abide by them if necessary.

However he’s refused to do under the tout that his “beliefs” are being hampered. He’s free to think that just as much as the school is free to think his behaviour is worthy of suspension. Every post where you try to pass the blame to the school for having the cheek not to let him away with it just makes me think you’re a troll at this stage.

What you are saying in essence is Enoch should be let away with it. Okay, we don’t know that he shouted abuse at the principal for a matter of fact. WE don’t. But what WE know doesn’t matter. What the BOM, principal, etc know? That matters. That’s why there’s a dislplincary hearing that he’s desperately trying to put a halt to. Why would he do that if he was innocent?

Oh, right, of course, the schools out to get him.

Annasopra · 10-01-2023 12:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088665#Comment_120088665

No. They didnt call the gardai. Media asked the gardai.

ohnonotgmail · 10-01-2023 12:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089284#Comment_120089284

I didnt say he physically assaulted anybody. a row requires two people. one person shouting at another who is trying to get away is not a row.

Who hasn't had a row and let things get out of hand a bit in terms of what was said?

I can't remember any instances where I have had to be physically separated from somebody. Anybody who does that should be subject to disciplinary action. the school took disciplinary action they were correct to do so. the consequences of that such as the court order and imprisonment are down entirely to the actions of Burke. The school have done nothing wrong.

Boggles · 10-01-2023 12:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089284#Comment_120089284

The principal/ school should have anticipated what could happen once they suspended him

Sorry which planet does this employment law exist on?

The employers should be able to tell the future? 😂

No, it's incumbent on the employee to adhere to the process in any work disciplinary process, this is something he would have also signed up to when signing is contract. Which he is also now in breach of.

Boggles · 10-01-2023 12:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089333#Comment_120089333

No. The gardaí told the media they were completely aware of his presence in the school.

Again, it's criminal trespass 101, he was suspended on the grounds that his mere presence would negatively impact the children's welfare.

10-01-2023 12:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088945#Comment_120088945

lets suppose they have burkes guts

no, mate no.

no.

just.. no! No? Are you.. no!? What? No.

Are you trying to say that following a woman around and shouting at her about a transgender student takes guts? What the f-? Nah you’re a troll man you have to be. You can’t be real.

AndrewJRenko · 10-01-2023 12:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088945#Comment_120088945

This sounds like the abusive husband, blaming his wife for getting beaten up, because his dinner was cold. There’s no justification for abuse. The abuser is the problem.

Furze99 · 10-01-2023 12:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089322#Comment_120089322

I invited you to put aside all your prejudices and look at the case coldly. But you don't seem able to do this, you & others are convinced that Burke is some great bogey man.

I'm inclined to agree with other views that this will end up in the courts, one way or another, with some case surrounding unfair dismissal. And given the protections we afford towards religious minorities, the school may well end up losing. The school set this train in motion by rashly suspending him, on an issue concerning religious convictions, when they should have taken more considered legal advice and weighed up the consequences.

If you can't look at it coldly and see that, I can't help you.

10-01-2023 12:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089389#Comment_120089389

No, no they didn’t suspend him for religious belief oh don’t you dare try that with me my friend.

He was suspended because he accosted the schools principal. He shouted at, in a public place, during a school event his superior. Do you have a job by chance? I empower you to go and have a few yells at your manager, tell them it’s about religion and how you won’t work Sundays anymore or something and when you’re suspended let me know how you get on with your “minority” status.

you’re living in la la land, it’s not me who needs help, it’s you.

10-01-2023 1:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087166#Comment_120087166

Burke is/ was objecting to new policy being handed down from the principal. board of management.

According to the Principal, this was not a new policy. The Principal stated in their response to Burke's emailed objection that their direction to staff was in line with the school's ethos and policies on inclusiveness and in line with the school's obligations under the Equality Acts.

It is Burke who tried, and continues to try and insist otherwise and that it was new.

And again, the policy had nothing to do with Burke's choice of behaviour and his actions on 21 June at the church service and dinner afterwards. They are what led to his suspension, nothing else.

Allinall · 10-01-2023 1:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089389#Comment_120089389

The school didn't suspend him on an issue concerning religious convictions.

They suspended him because he verbally abused the principal and had to be restrained.

KaneToad · 10-01-2023 1:13pm

The disciplinary hearing into his suspension really needs to take place. Until then, both sides have validity to their claims.

Statements like "Burke had to be physically restrained" need to be properly bottomed out.

e.g.

-did some physically put hands on Burke?

-if yes, was this necessary? (It's possible for someone to unnecessarily physically restrain someone.)

-if this wasn't necessary, was Burke physically assaulted himself?

We all the know the likelihood of what happened but a disciplinary hearing is required to remove ambiguity.

It should be noted that Burke is trying to take legal action to prevent disciplinary hearing to take place.

Bullocks · 10-01-2023 1:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088620#Comment_120088620

He should have been back in jail before he took his second step inside the school.

This country needs way more prison space

AndrewJRenko · 10-01-2023 1:14pm

Very interesting

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2023/0110/1345857-enoch-burke/

Does he have any substantial assets, I wonder?

chooseusername · 10-01-2023 1:20pm

He hasn't been sacked, but probably will be now.

He would not be sacked if he obeyed the terms of his suspension ie. stay away from the school until the disciplinary hearing.

He may not be sacked if he failed to comply with school's ruling but obeyed the court order to stay away.

He probably would be sacked if he continued to attend the school in defiance of the school and court ruling.

He will be sacked now, as he has been jailed for contempt of court and still attended the school.

Formosa · 10-01-2023 1:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087370#Comment_120087370

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing...

10-01-2023 1:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089475#Comment_120089475

He’s not in prison because it was determined he was exploiting the incarceration to further his own agenda. It was a waste of time, money & resources and served no purpose any longer.

This is well documented.

Annasopra · 10-01-2023 1:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089389#Comment_120089389

What?

"Rashly" suspending him?

Why are you continuously dismissing his behaviour as reasonable.

BattleCorp · 10-01-2023 1:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089281#Comment_120089281

Personally I'd like to know the facts before forming an opinion. Knowing what Burke said would help inform us if Burke was abusive to the Principal and therefore if the suspension was warranted. Maybe my use of the word 'transcript' was the wrong word.........maybe details of what he said would have been more appropriate.

It's an allegation at this stage as no ruling has been made by the school. And yes, someone should have taken notes. Fair enough, nobody would take notes there and then, but you can be sure notes of what was said will 100% be needed for Burke's disciplinary procedure.

I'm not saying this is the case, but for all we know, Burke might have just shouted/talked loudly/taked normally/whatever that he didn't agree with the Policy and it was against his religious beliefs etc. over and over and he mightn't have abused the Principal at all, as many here have claimed. And then again he might have absolutely abused the Principal, I just don't know. That's why I'd like to know what he said to the Principal.

The only thing I know Burke is 100% guilty of so far is repeatedly ignoring a court order, a serious offence in my book for sure. And I'd be throwing the book at him for that.

ohnonotgmail · 10-01-2023 1:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089476#Comment_120089476

Mr Burke, a German, History and debating teacher at the school

Irony

chooseusername · 10-01-2023 1:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089529#Comment_120089529

I dare say there is a video of the confrontation somewhere.

BattleCorp · 10-01-2023 1:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089055#Comment_120089055

I know he hasn't been sacked. I actually agree with the school suspending him pending investigation if he was abusive to the Principal at the function.

But being honest, if he wasn't abusive personally to the Principal, i.e. kept saying the Policy was against his religion etc., I don't think doing that should be a sackable offence. Some sort of disciplinary sanction yes, but maybe not a sacking.

What I do think is a sackable offence is repeatedly going into the school against a court order.

Boggles · 10-01-2023 1:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089529#Comment_120089529

The only thing I know Burke is 100% guilty of so far is repeatedly ignoring a court order

Well no, he is "guilty" of failing to engage in a disciplinary process in a consistent manager which he is legally obliged to do so under employment law and his own employment contract.

He has breached both.

He has also purposely interfered with the process. Which again is breach of both.

He is toast.

hynesie08 · 10-01-2023 1:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089389#Comment_120089389

I invited you to put aside all your prejudices and look at the case coldly. But you don't seem able to do this

I refuse to believe for a second you typed this with a straight face after all your false equivalences, whataboutery and general bad faith posting.

Quin_Dub · 10-01-2023 1:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089476#Comment_120089476

I doubt it , think it's just that this is an alternative method of enforcement on the injunction.

Sending him back to Prison is a waste of everyones time and money.

Also - If they put him back in jail, then the disciplinary hearing gets punted again which again is only of benefit to Enoch Burke.

This way , they get to put him to some discomfort , hopefully enough for him to behave like a grown-up for a while but still allowing the underlying procedure to move forward to conclusion.

BattleCorp · 10-01-2023 1:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089564#Comment_120089564

I agree he is toast but he's not guilty yet of failing to engage in a disciplinary process. He's using the courts to try and stop it. Which is his right. It's abuse of the courts for sure, but it's 100% legal. I can't see him being successful but using the courts to try and stop is it is 100% legal. So he's not guilty of anything in that regard - yet.

hynesie08 · 10-01-2023 1:52pm

A lot of teachers bring supplies from home, maybe they're going to put all his stuff in storage and teach a trans study course from his classroom....

Boggles · 10-01-2023 1:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089636#Comment_120089636

Also - If they put him back in jail, then the disciplinary hearing gets punted again which again is only of benefit to Enoch Burke

The Disciplinary Hearing can go ahead in his absence.

Which I suspect it will anyway at least in part, he will show up with whatever Adams family sibling, rant and rave to the point they will have to be removed.

Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

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