URC 2022 Thread

PMC83 · 10-01-2023 9:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087976#Comment_120087976

Is it self sustainable though? Plenty of money men involved in that league and what happens when they step away? Theres a lot of brown envelopes in French rugby.

PMC83 · 10-01-2023 9:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087942#Comment_120087942

I watch a bit of the Prem and while it is entertaining theres the usual few weak teams swimming around the bottom of the table. I think Andy Goode and the like really look at it with rose tinted glasses, theres no relegation anymore so 'the narratives' around the bottom half of the table which are often mentioned are now mute. TBH I much prefer the URC, different counties, different stadiums and different upsets. Way better!

Buer · 10-01-2023 9:32am

With the culmination of a RWC cycle, I can see a number of SA based players moving on to cash in on their last opportunity to big money. As such, I reckon the SA teams are going to be diminished next season.

We already have guys like Kolisi gone from the Sharks with Du Toit rumoured to be signed up in Europe and Nche's contract up too. Kitshoff is a big loss to the Stormers with Malherbe getting on, he's surely been contacted by European clubs and could command a serious price in France. With that said, I'm not sure if the contracts mean a huge amount given that Kolisi apparently was contracted for another few years.

There's a significant number of Springbok players featuring domestically that are going to be over 30 following the RWC so I can see a lot of change taking place with those teams in the next 18 months. Mbonambi, Mapimpi, Kolisi, Kitshoff, Etzebeth and Malherbe will all be over 30 and playing in SA. I'd imagine there's going to be a number of offers on the table for such guys.

awec · 10-01-2023 10:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088729#Comment_120088729

There's plenty of money men in our league too.

PMC83 · 10-01-2023 10:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088901#Comment_120088901

Yeah theres a few alright but in comparisson to France? Theres a reason you see so many Abs heading to France / Japan and not to URC teams. I suppose in general its a mute point as the game across the board has sustainability issues.

Cookiemunster · 10-01-2023 10:24am

Sharks v Ulster and Lions v Glasgow refixed for Feb 25th. Which clashes with round three of the 6N. Ulster shouldn't be too badly affected by international call ups, but Glasgow will be decimated.

Neil3030 · 10-01-2023 12:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087976#Comment_120087976

France is in decent shape in a lot of ways, but I don't think URC is too far behind. If you forget the multinational element, URC actually has a lot in common with France, in terms of underlying dynamics that support sustainability.

The spine of the URC is composed of the Irish provinces, maybe 3 of the SA teams, increasingly the 2 Scottish teams and hopefully in time, at least Cardiff from Wales. That's 9 or 10 teams, all representing large population bases (>500k) that identify strongly with their team, with little to no competition from league.

What I particularly like is how the URC's financial risk is spread across the EU, UK and a developing nation. And the close relation with Unions adds an additional channel of support via central finances if needed. And you've potentially got central help coming from either SANZAR or 6N. And, as Awec says, they haven't frozen out the private backing either.

Neil3030 · 10-01-2023 1:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088770#Comment_120088770

Yeah, I think it was important that Stormers claimed the inaugural title, because it's quite unlikely an SA team will win it again for a good while.

That said, most of the Boks play with the Sharks, while the strongest SA teams have been Bulls and Stormers. So they clearly have a very healthy crop of just-below-international standard players knocking around. They key, for me, will be holding onto that tier.

10-01-2023 1:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089728#Comment_120089728

I think how the RWC turns out could have an impact on the way some of those countries/leagues approach the import or export of talented rugby players overseas.

If France collapse, and massively underperform, there might be some hand-wringing about the level of imports in the Top14. I know they already have the rules around having 17 JIFF players in a match day 23, but you still can't but notice if you look at a lot of the squads how many imports are playing in key positions.

Equally - if NZ chronically underperform, they might look at the flight of talent out of NZ in the past 5/6 years and think they need to step up their financial commitment (potentially ceding more control to PE money like Silver Lake or CVC) to encourage their players to stay home.

I'm not necessarily saying if France or NZ (to use those two as examples) underperform it will be specifically for this reason, but you'd imagine if either really do s** the bed, this is the sort of area that will attract scrutiny.

pickarooney · 10-01-2023 6:57pm

Even in the darkest hour of French Rugby the sentiment that there were too many foreign players didn't have too much traction. The FFR and their poor choice of coaches, the LNR not cooperating and the Anglo-Saxon refereeing conspiracy were all far more popular targets. The talent was always there, and if clubs could bring in top talent from abroad, more power to them. Club fans would bait each other mercilessly about their galacticos but the national team was another story

lawrencesummers · 10-01-2023 7:02pm

Doesnt the ingoing success of the SA teams in the URC make it inevitable that the national side play in the 6 nations to give their season the same calendar as their competition?

Its a matter of when not if as far as i can see.

Blut2 · 10-01-2023 8:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120091406#Comment_120091406

Thats a factor, but not even the most important one. The huge amount of revenue brought to the URC by the Saffers is far more of a factor in their likely getting added to the 6N in the near future.

All of the 6N unions are still desperate for cash after corona, the prospect of a yearly injection of tens of millions of euros without much effort or sacrifice on their end is a very tempting one.

lawrencesummers · 10-01-2023 8:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120091604#Comment_120091604

Having 3 home games a year sounds much better than having 2.5.

The reduction in URC games lends itself to it also.

Hard to see any of the unions objecting to another guaranteed full house every second year.

I suspect post world cup we might see some movement in it.

Akrasia · 10-01-2023 9:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088770#Comment_120088770

It's probably a good thing for SA to do a clear out of the over 30s after this world cup cycle. Gives a chance for the next generation to build in time for 2027.

South Africa have some seriously impressive young players coming through

CIARAN_BOYLE · 10-01-2023 9:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120091406#Comment_120091406

The head of SARU commented recently that he felt that South Africa rugby would be bid on by the six nations and champions cup.

At the end of the day I feel South Africa leaving the rugby championship could be a real body blow to that tournament and they may be induced to stay.

Podge_irl · 10-01-2023 10:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120092030#Comment_120092030

Adding SA to the 6N is deeply complicated on many levels. Even ignoring the travel issue, it by necessity adds at last two weeks to the championship. There will be massive pushback to that.

lawrencesummers · 11-01-2023 2:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120092202#Comment_120092202

Currently 5 games are played over 7 weeks. They will just play 6 games over 7 weeks, and sell another stadium full of tickets.

Neil3030 · 11-01-2023 6:44am

For whatever "Twitter chatter" is worth, SA fans are not only convinced that they will soon be in a 7N tournament, but that they will remain playing in the Tri Nations as well. How on earth they'd manage that schedule is beyond me.

pickarooney · 11-01-2023 7:33am

With their mooted 'northern team' and 'southern team'?

Jump_In_Jack · 11-01-2023 9:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120092820#Comment_120092820

Thought that would make the most sense alright. South Africa have more than enough players, so if both competitions generate revenue why wouldn't they?

11-01-2023 9:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120091389#Comment_120091389

I definitely agree with this, but I think it's equally fair to say that never has the expectation for France going into a RWC been so high. They're on the back of a GS in 2022, two Junior RWC wins by largely this crop of players in 2018 and 2019, widely considered the best team in the world at this moment I think and the benefits of home advantage.

That's why I think the blowback this time if they are unsuccessful will be significant, and French rugby will be looking for scapegoats.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 11-01-2023 9:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120092820#Comment_120092820

Probably by downgrading their urc squads or by dropping summer or autumn tours (since they play everyone important during 7 nations or rugby championship)

That's a full season in international rugby.

Red Silurian · 11-01-2023 11:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088528#Comment_120088528

The alternatives to that is the South Africans pay for those long routes or the players don't get game time at club level

The travel is a bit mad though for the saffers

Sharks, who played Connacht last weekend, host Bordeaux-Bégles in Durban next weekend and then travel to face Harlequins away the following weekend for example

It might be better for the competitions if the Saffers are allowed to have their home and away EPCR games in the same block. To use one example Sharks could have hosted Quins and Bordeaux on the 10th/16th of December and then travelled to meet them on the 14th/21st of January

Blut2 · 11-01-2023 11:45am

I'm not sure how viable the Saffers playing in both tournaments is for other reasons, but in terms of game time they play 4 games in the Northern Hemisphere most Novembers. Getting rid of those would go a long way towards freeing up space for the hypothetical 6 "7Nations" games.

Dubinusa · 11-01-2023 11:48am

South Africa produces so many players, it's ridiculous. I usually watch highlights of the urc matches and I am amazed at the skill levels of players that we don't know much about.

I'm not sure about the 6nations though. 7 sides is uneven and would they expand the time length? Players would be flogged and owners wouldn't be too happy.

stephen_n · 11-01-2023 11:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120093672#Comment_120093672

but that only really works if some of the 6N games are played in November. If the 6N is extended by 2 weeks. That will have a huge effect on the club game.

pickarooney · 11-01-2023 12:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120093157#Comment_120093157

We'll see, but most fans I speak with are quietly confident but fully aware that this is likely to be the most competitive World Cup ever. If they were to fail in the group stages, it would be catastrophic but all the potential knockout games are against teams who can beat France and one narrow defeat against Ireland or South Africa would be simply disappointing but not a shock.

lawrencesummers · 11-01-2023 4:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120093564#Comment_120093564

wont you have european based teams on the road for consecutive weekends then?

lawrencesummers · 11-01-2023 7:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120092820#Comment_120092820

When you think about that and the stakeholders involved its really only the players and their own clubs that would be against that, and players tend not to complain, so the requirement to release players for international windows might make SA players less attractive to Frence, english and Japanese clubs.

It would mean carrying a bigger squad and being smart in resting / rotating players

The northern unions will take the revenue all day and the southern unions would be scared of losing the revenue so probably wouldnt complain much, and the SA fans will be happy for the most part.

Red Silurian · 12-01-2023 12:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120095042#Comment_120095042

No because Quinn's and Bordeaux in my example are doing one away fixture before Christmas and one away after

lawrencesummers · 12-01-2023 2:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120098104#Comment_120098104

Thats only two sides, what about the rest who are playing one SA and one Euro.

Red Silurian · 12-01-2023 2:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120098610#Comment_120098610

So the 6 teams involved in these fixtures are Tiers 2 and 3

Sharks (URC 3) and Leinster, (URC 2)

Gloucester (EP 3) and Quins (EP 2)

Racing 92 (T14 3) and Bordeaux (T14 2)

(Home team in bold)

Week 1: Sharks V Quins, Bordeaux V Gloucester, R92 V Leinster

Week 2: Sharks V Bordeaux, Quins V R92, Leinster V Gloucester

Week 3: Bordeaux V Sharks, R92 V Quins, Gloucester V Leinster

Week 4: Quins V Sharks, Gloucester V Bordeaux, Leinster V R92

Every team gets 2 Home and 2 away games, only one team (Sharks) plays their home (and away) games together and the first game is still the reverse of the last game, unless I've made a mistake in my calculations, in which case please tell me as I am only human!

Red Silurian · 12-01-2023 2:48pm

I've seen the error now. Yeah it wouldn't work!

Podge_irl · 12-01-2023 5:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120098796#Comment_120098796

Alright, I give up. What's the error?

Jump_In_Jack · 12-01-2023 8:20pm

Gloucester would have 2 games away in a row then 2 games at home in a row.

Red Silurian · 12-01-2023 8:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099545#Comment_120099545

Gloucester, and I even tried to move the Gloucester game around to no avail... Although I am glad to not be the only one who didn't see it at first haha!

lawrencesummers · 13-01-2023 2:20am

I wonder if you moved back to pools of 4 with 3 back to back fixture weekends could you accommodate something like that better - on one set of weekends your away twice, on one your home twice and then the third weekend its one home one away

Dubinusa · 14-01-2023 5:31pm

Hey look! Urc teams getting it done! The premiership is gash. Leinster and Munster both win against English clubs and Toulouse hammer Sale.

Neil3030 · 16-01-2023 2:16pm

13/16 wins across Heino and Challenge Cup this weekend. #BestLeague

phog · 25-01-2023 10:26pm

https://twitter.com/AdamRedmond/status/1618175261236940802?t=r_YN9MqF_cwMpMbuH6yH-Q&s=19

For the anoraks

Burkie1203 · 29-01-2023 8:18am

Jackman in Indo today reckons 3 Welsh regions on verge of administration

lawrencesummers · 29-01-2023 8:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120172313#Comment_120172313

Anything for a few clicks

29-01-2023 11:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120172375#Comment_120172375

Jackman to be fair has been first to flag a couple of newsworthy eventualities that have transpired.

Given he coached in Wales I wouldn't be surprised if he has some latent insight there - and with the utter cretins running the WRU nothing would surprise me.

Akrasia · 29-01-2023 11:48am

The saddest thing is if all 4 Welsh regions went bankrupt tomorrow it wouldn't impact the knockouts for the current season and the only effect it would have on the Heineken cup next year, is whoever finishes 8th will qualify instead of giving the spot to the least worst Welsh team