Roderic O’G: Transgender issues added to primary curriculum

The definition of those terms is hugely important when discussing this. Not wanting to answer that is just a huge cop out.

Male and female are the two sex classes of our species.

Children of the male sex class are called boys.

Adults of the male sex class are called men.

Children of the female sex class are called girls.

Adults of the female sex class are called women.

There are people of both sex classes who either believe themselves to be, or want to be the opposite sex class.

As this is an impossibility, instead they have redefined gender (which used to simply equate with sex) so that it is a self identity which can change.

Previously the accepted term was transsexual, but that has since become transgender.

Previously it was accepted that transsexuals have a form of dysphoria, but now it's said that no dysphoria is necessary to be transgender.

Laws are being brought in across the world which are allowing people to change their sex on legal documents, such as birth cert, with essentially no required criteria to be met.

This has clear safeguarding issues which have already been abused, and will continue to be so.

Children don't need to know any of this. There is no need whatsoever to add it to the primary school curriculum. If a child asks a parent or teacher about it, they can explain in the most simple way possible, and move on.

The definition of those terms is hugely important when discussing this. Not wanting to answer that is just a huge cop out.

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Children don't need to know any of this. There is no need whatsoever to add it to the primary school curriculum. If a child asks a parent or teacher about it, they can explain in the most simple way possible, and move on.

Surely arguing that children don’t need to know about these things is the ultimate cop-out from the responsibility the State has towards children in terms of their education? Isn’t that WHY how these terms are defined and applied is as important as it is? Because without having the language to articulate the idea, it allows for a cop-out, and leaves children who are transgender feeling like there’s something wrong with them, that their innate sense of self does not correspond to what they’re learning from the world around them in terms of their place in society.

Defining these terms IS important, and it’s just as important to individuals that they get to define these terms for themselves. It’s why people don’t agree on how the terms are defined, and so you get people coming out with their ideas of what constitutes a real woman, or indeed what constitutes a woman in the first place.

Simone de Beauvoir for example wasn’t referring to biology when she wrote the words “One is not born a woman, but becomes one”. Sharia Twain was less philosophical about the whole concept when she sang about how she feels like a woman. It’s not difficult to understand what she means by that when you listen to the lyrics of the song, inspired by her time working in a holiday resort -

The title and thus the lyrics of the song were based on Shania Twain's experience while working at Deerhurst Resort in Huntsville, Ontario to provide for her brothers and sisters after their parents died in a car crash. Twain recalls seeing some drag performers working at the resort and credits them as the source of her inspiration. Later in 1993, after being signed to Mercury Nashville and releasing her first album Shania Twain, Twain met Robert John "Mutt" Lange, whom she would collaborate extensively with and marry at the end of the year. In 1994, while composing songs for what would become her second studio album The Woman in Me, Lange played to Twain a riff he had been working on and Twain sang lyrics for what would become "Man! I Feel Like a Woman!". Speaking of the writing of the song, she stated "There was no time to waste on ideas that wouldn't make the album, but something like [the song] was just there. I was inspired right off the bat with that one, for example, by a riff Mutt had going, and the lyrics and phrasing just came out of the blue."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man!_I_Feel_Like_a_Woman!

The 90’s of course were that time when women were being taught that they too could behave like men with Girl Power and the whole lot. Certainly ‘twas a lot more fun then than the #metoo stuff in recent years, but that’s why defining these terms is as important as it is, and not wanting children to know about it is a cop-out when it’s imperative that they do know about it, so that as adults themselves they can change how these terms are defined and interpreted, and that they’re not restricted or limited by how anyone else feels they should define themselves. You can thank Carl Jung for that one -

The world will ask who you are, and if you do not know, the world will tell you.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_in_Jungian_psychology

Best example is this thread: we all know transpeople exist, regardless of how you define them: the function now, is: determine at what age it's best to start educating children about transpeople.

Trying to define what is and isn't a woman is counterproductive.

Why participate? Well, I like the variety of issues presented regarding the subject.

Fair point, but again: if we get bogged down in definitions, none of this debate takes place.

For me, it's more "what is trans" and does trans qualify you as such. But again - transpeople exist legally and scientifically. For better or for worse, the genie's out of the bottle - so at what ae do we educate? What do we educate? Or do we opt to not educate?

Unless your stance is that there's no such thin as trans in the first place...?

If your stance is "what is a woman?' how do we agree on terms so we can move on with the rest of the debate? Or are you of the opinoin that there is no debate, in which case - why are YOU participating?

Is there an agreed consensus or defined standard on even the terminology and definitions surrounding transgenderism? No, imo. So how could it be taught on a national curriculum?

Easily, because consensus in education isn’t a requirement of the national curriculum. It’s for this reason that it is the patron of the school who determines the curriculum in relation to relationships and sexuality education, in this country at least. There isn’t any requirement that all countries form a consensus when it comes to these matters either in how they are taught to children.

Huh? No need for agreed definitions? Schools or school patrons decide themselves on this? Thats just ridiculous

That’s a convenient interpretation of the point I was making. I didn’t mention anything about children being taught basic biology. A child who is transgender would undoubtedly feel that way if they were being forced to behave as though they believed what they were being told. That suits the person telling them, because it accords with what that person maintains is an objective and unchanging fact, in accordance with their beliefs.

I didn’t say it was. The point I was making is that undermining a person’s sense of self, is what constitutes gaslighting. I even gave the example of John Money, a respected and renowned influential scientist who maintained that gender identity was malleable, and could be altered. It was his patients who suffered as a consequence of his beliefs, while he was regarded as a pioneer in his field. The truth only became public knowledge after the fact, and still there are to this day people who believe his work had merit.

Good luck trying to explain "the full spectrum of gender identity" and differences of all 16 (or more as they keep adding new exotics) genders to 2nd class kids.

Is this designed to completely confuse them?

Regarding it as ridiculous doesn’t change the fact that that’s what happens in terms of education in this country -

In preparation for teaching SPHE/RSE, it is important to consult your school’s SPHE/RSE policy to ensure that your approach, the programmes you use and the content you teach is in keeping with your school’s policy.

https://www.curriculumonline.ie/getmedia/f016e798-f87b-4c93-93e0-fe58ecb79aca/An-inclusive-approach-to-SPHERSE-–-LGBTI-identities_final.pdf

There have been attempts by a small group of Irish politicians to undermine this idea (they too are of the opinion it’s ridiculous), with the introduction of their Provision of Objective Sex Education bill, but that’s going nowhere fast -

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2018/34/

Catholic Bishops, who are the Patron of 90% of Irish schools, are having none of it in their schools -

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/churchs-backlash-blocks-change-in-religion-classes-35249798.html