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Ireland running out of accommodation for Ukrainian refugees due to surge in non-Ukrainian refugees?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,120 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Around 6000 people were refused entry to the country in 2022 and promptly deported by the BMU or GNIB - I've no idea how the idea has taken hold among the anti-immigration crowd that this is not happening.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Why the need to let 20k stay then ? If it's happening at pace there should be no one to allow stay who was illegal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,120 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Doesn't it suggest that the immigration system is working well in fact? Letting some people through (people who they believe 'are' genuine asylum seekers) so that their claim can be assessed and immediately deporting the ones who they believe to be bogus.

    Not 20k btw, I believe the figure for 2022 was 13k (very high by our standards admittedly, but not necessarily out of the ordinary by European norms).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,745 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Never just like they wont be asking about the babies again.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,745 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    So what's the relevance of the hypothetical then? The only way 'immigration-skeptics' will ever have a significant influence on policy in this area is by getting people elected to the Dail. And it seems to me they're as far away from that as ever...



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    The poll proves it's not just a small number of weirdoes. It's the population speaking not Twitter that TD's seem to get their policy points from. There is a Reason the Right is on the Rise. None of us want the Right to rise but It's inevitable when you cant vote for anyone else.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,783 ✭✭✭ShamNNspace


    Do you mean the 6000 or so passengers who were refused "leave to land"?.. All that means is they are taken to an interview room where if they claim asylum they are then taken landside and allowed to remain in the state while their cases are being processed... Roughly 90% of passengers refused "leave to land" in this way opt for this course of action



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,745 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    See again you seem to be assuming that TV polls, protests etc. will inevitably convert into votes in a general election. Going on much headway the Right has made to date on that front, I'll be believing that when I see it...



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    TV polls seem to be fine when they go the correct way though. Odd that. Just like polls for TD's And the Gov ultimate importance if they are good non issue if they are bad. Were not soft in the head. I guarantee a party that suggests they will halt or tackle immigration in a serious manner will win by a landslide. People with Kids will vote for them.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭lmao10


    Who are they going to vote for? The NP? lol



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    People will vote for who ever will tackle the problem. Be It NP, SF, FF, FG, PBP. Problem is no one is tackling this issue that people have spoken on. Why do you think the Right got into power In Italy. Stick the head in the sand all we like.



  • Registered Users Posts: 300 ✭✭keynes


    Italy, US, UK: immigration has led to "shock" results in all of these countries in recent years. Evidently, these places are home to hundreds of millions of "far-right racists."



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Problem is some believe exactly that. They will never take into account people having children and wanting a future for them in their own country. Every time I mention I'm an Immigrant they shout pulling up the ladder. Ask Any immigrant in any country if they want more they will say no as it's competition. It's not racist it's human nature. Only so many jobs some arriving will work for less it's simple maths to most immigrants.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,135 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Every time I mention I'm an Immigrant they shout pulling up the ladder. Ask Any immigrant in any country if they want more they will say no as it's competition.


    An immigrant in any country saying they don’t want any more immigrants IS pulling up the ladder after themselves though 😂

    Aside from that, it’s definitely not true to claim that any immigrant in any country shares your views, particularly when in Ireland alone there are plenty of immigrants who argue in favour of encouraging immigrants to come to come to Ireland where there are opportunities to make a better life for themselves and their families which don’t exist in the countries they come from.

    You say that people with children will vote for any party that addresses immigration the way you want them to, because you see it as an issue. Other people don’t see immigration as an issue or an obstacle to to the opportunities their children have, and they don’t see immigrants as competition for those same opportunities, let alone attempting to portray non-European immigrants as being the type of immigrant nobody wants. That’s just coded language some people use to hide their racist nonsense that’s as plain as day.

    Ireland isn’t going to vote for a party solely on the basis of their immigration policies, because we don’t have the same history of being openly racist in this country that exists in other countries which have a long history of mass immigration. Also unlike other European countries, we never attempted to colonise other countries either and then complained when colonists came to settle in the countries of their colonisers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Outside of a NGO workers I have never spoken to a fellow immigrant that will agree with this statement. Stick the head in the sand. Italy was on the front line now look they have a right wing Government. I'm not pulling up anything I'm Educated and work in a highly skilled area came to Ireland legally. The rest is typical NGO speak. The Irish never got the same supports it's a tired argument that hold no water what so ever. What next No black No Dogs No Irish. That never happened. Absolutely nothing wrong or Racist realising your full.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,492 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    When there will be leaders who can string a coherent sentence together and get it going, be very afraid. They will fill that vacuum, don't you worry, and it will be a consequence of the current shower pussy footing around issues, making decisions to please the "right on" sector to the detriment of the country as a whole.

    There weren't any extreme right wing parties with popular following until there was. Remember the nazis were laughed at in the beginning.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭lmao10


    I think you've been spending too much time in your echo chambers. The real world is quite different. Just look at the past election results lol



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    VM disagrees like the people who voted. I think we are not in the echo chamber. You will get your Right wing bogyman And it's on those in power now. People in the centre have been saying this for years chickens coming home to roost very soon. Imagine not being able to holiday in your own country. Imagine your children not being able to attend collage. Imagine your doctor not being able to see you. Imagine not being able to buy a house as the Gov is buying up all the stock and not for the Irish.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    You are right, very few will likely vote solely on immigration. Most peoples might be concerned about immigration, but they are also concerned on health, housing, education, jobs etc

    Very few in this country vote solely on one issue, except maybe housing and even then id be skeptical. A mainstream party who was honest on immigration would see an increase in vote in my opinion. Weve seen Aontus share of pollls increase by questioning the mainstream, and interesting to see if it converts to seats.

    The National Party won't get votes in this country as they aren't seen as acceptable, and because they are dreadful, with zero actual policies around economics, education etc.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,135 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    How is that ME sticking my head in the sand? I believe you when you say that outside of NGO workers you have never spoken to a fellow immigrant who would agree with that statement. It’s also why you’re so attuned to the results of a VM Tonight Show poll reporting on immigration or refugees or whatever it was. You’re undoubtedly familiar with the term ‘selection bias’.

    That you came to Ireland legally and whatever else isn’t the point. The point is that you’re an immigrant who doesn’t want other immigrants to come to Ireland because you think they’re competition. They’re not, and you’re not any competition for Irish people either. There is no entitlement to anything in this country like a being able to attend college, buy a house, a career, etc. That’s ‘American Dream’ type nonsense.

    Few people in this country are convinced their citizenship entitles them to certain rights in this country which it most certainly does not. Immigrants have exactly the same rights to the same opportunities. It doesn’t mean they are depriving Irish people of anything, nor are Government depriving Irish people of anything by providing for refugees.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    So according to your logic every BLM and climate protest we seen recently was not peaceful and comprised of aggressive intimidating mob.

    Glad you started to see the light.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Seems that government idea of sorting out immigration problem since hotels are pulling out of scheme is to build more state owned Direct provision centers because building houses for that amount of newcomers is simply not possible.

    Up to 20% of current non ukraine DP residents already have favorable decision and can move out to live and work yet they are staying put since there is nowhere for them to go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    I do not think you are right. It is pressure on system which grow rapidly and something has to give up. Most of the people have nothing against immigrants who come here to work and live to improve their life even if they are economic migrants.

    Problem is that a lot of things changed and to the worse as it seems. If I go by what I seen since I came here then I have to pay 3x the rent which I paid 20 years ago. 2-3x more for fuel, energy, groceries and pretty much everything while income is only marginally higher.

    To pretend that nothing is happening and keep this wide open door policy is insane.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭bokale


    Think the issue with the ones in ballymun etc is that they are protesting at the place the people are living. If it truly is an issue with government policy they should march to the dail or something. That's why it's intimidatory imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,492 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    The rise of the nazis occurred in the 'real world', did they not?

    'lol' indeed...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,482 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    TV Poll. LOL. 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,135 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    If I go by what I seen since I came here…


    Irish society hasn’t actually changed all that much. I’m not sure when you actually came here, but going back as far as Ireland in the 1960’s, Ballymun for example wasn’t any different then than it is now, nor was most of Irish society. This is well worth a watch to give you some idea -

    Housing Conditions Critical in Dublin 1966

    https://www.rte.ie/archives/exhibitions/894-house-and-home/139163-housing-conditions-in-dublin/


    Same group of people experiencing the same conditions, no different then than conditions are now. It’s just that people’s expectations rose as their standards of living increased, and naturally enough as one would expect - as standards of living increase, so too does the cost of living to match it. No shortage of people swanning about with €1,500 iPhones for example. Certainly they weren’t a common sight 20 years ago when they cost about the same.

    There’s no wide open door policy, and providing for refugees is already budgeted for, so it’s not as though the funding is being taken from other services, it was never spent on those services in the first place. That’s why we are now where we are, and in 20 years time again it’ll be someone else telling me when they came here that everything was “3x less than it costs now”, and the open door policy is madness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    "There’s no wide open door policy, and providing for refugees is already budgeted for, so it’s not as though the funding is being taken from other services, it was never spent on those services in the first place."

    This is nonsense for example if 3 billion of taxpayers money is earmarked just to provide for Ukranians then thats 3 billion that could gone towards housing, education,health etc.

    Its the same argument that O Gorman makes when he says that housing being built for DP is from a separate budget than that for building social housing. Its all the countries money ffs. It would be like a man explaining to his wife that the money he spends in the pub 7 nights a week has no effect on the household budget.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,096 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    🤣

    You clearly didnt read any of the context of my posts at all.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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