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Ireland running out of accommodation for Ukrainian refugees due to surge in non-Ukrainian refugees?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,918 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Every time I mention I'm an Immigrant they shout pulling up the ladder. Ask Any immigrant in any country if they want more they will say no as it's competition.


    An immigrant in any country saying they don’t want any more immigrants IS pulling up the ladder after themselves though 😂

    Aside from that, it’s definitely not true to claim that any immigrant in any country shares your views, particularly when in Ireland alone there are plenty of immigrants who argue in favour of encouraging immigrants to come to come to Ireland where there are opportunities to make a better life for themselves and their families which don’t exist in the countries they come from.

    You say that people with children will vote for any party that addresses immigration the way you want them to, because you see it as an issue. Other people don’t see immigration as an issue or an obstacle to to the opportunities their children have, and they don’t see immigrants as competition for those same opportunities, let alone attempting to portray non-European immigrants as being the type of immigrant nobody wants. That’s just coded language some people use to hide their racist nonsense that’s as plain as day.

    Ireland isn’t going to vote for a party solely on the basis of their immigration policies, because we don’t have the same history of being openly racist in this country that exists in other countries which have a long history of mass immigration. Also unlike other European countries, we never attempted to colonise other countries either and then complained when colonists came to settle in the countries of their colonisers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Outside of a NGO workers I have never spoken to a fellow immigrant that will agree with this statement. Stick the head in the sand. Italy was on the front line now look they have a right wing Government. I'm not pulling up anything I'm Educated and work in a highly skilled area came to Ireland legally. The rest is typical NGO speak. The Irish never got the same supports it's a tired argument that hold no water what so ever. What next No black No Dogs No Irish. That never happened. Absolutely nothing wrong or Racist realising your full.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,325 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    When there will be leaders who can string a coherent sentence together and get it going, be very afraid. They will fill that vacuum, don't you worry, and it will be a consequence of the current shower pussy footing around issues, making decisions to please the "right on" sector to the detriment of the country as a whole.

    There weren't any extreme right wing parties with popular following until there was. Remember the nazis were laughed at in the beginning.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭lmao10


    I think you've been spending too much time in your echo chambers. The real world is quite different. Just look at the past election results lol



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    VM disagrees like the people who voted. I think we are not in the echo chamber. You will get your Right wing bogyman And it's on those in power now. People in the centre have been saying this for years chickens coming home to roost very soon. Imagine not being able to holiday in your own country. Imagine your children not being able to attend collage. Imagine your doctor not being able to see you. Imagine not being able to buy a house as the Gov is buying up all the stock and not for the Irish.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    You are right, very few will likely vote solely on immigration. Most peoples might be concerned about immigration, but they are also concerned on health, housing, education, jobs etc

    Very few in this country vote solely on one issue, except maybe housing and even then id be skeptical. A mainstream party who was honest on immigration would see an increase in vote in my opinion. Weve seen Aontus share of pollls increase by questioning the mainstream, and interesting to see if it converts to seats.

    The National Party won't get votes in this country as they aren't seen as acceptable, and because they are dreadful, with zero actual policies around economics, education etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,918 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    How is that ME sticking my head in the sand? I believe you when you say that outside of NGO workers you have never spoken to a fellow immigrant who would agree with that statement. It’s also why you’re so attuned to the results of a VM Tonight Show poll reporting on immigration or refugees or whatever it was. You’re undoubtedly familiar with the term ‘selection bias’.

    That you came to Ireland legally and whatever else isn’t the point. The point is that you’re an immigrant who doesn’t want other immigrants to come to Ireland because you think they’re competition. They’re not, and you’re not any competition for Irish people either. There is no entitlement to anything in this country like a being able to attend college, buy a house, a career, etc. That’s ‘American Dream’ type nonsense.

    Few people in this country are convinced their citizenship entitles them to certain rights in this country which it most certainly does not. Immigrants have exactly the same rights to the same opportunities. It doesn’t mean they are depriving Irish people of anything, nor are Government depriving Irish people of anything by providing for refugees.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,108 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    So according to your logic every BLM and climate protest we seen recently was not peaceful and comprised of aggressive intimidating mob.

    Glad you started to see the light.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,108 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Seems that government idea of sorting out immigration problem since hotels are pulling out of scheme is to build more state owned Direct provision centers because building houses for that amount of newcomers is simply not possible.

    Up to 20% of current non ukraine DP residents already have favorable decision and can move out to live and work yet they are staying put since there is nowhere for them to go.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,108 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    I do not think you are right. It is pressure on system which grow rapidly and something has to give up. Most of the people have nothing against immigrants who come here to work and live to improve their life even if they are economic migrants.

    Problem is that a lot of things changed and to the worse as it seems. If I go by what I seen since I came here then I have to pay 3x the rent which I paid 20 years ago. 2-3x more for fuel, energy, groceries and pretty much everything while income is only marginally higher.

    To pretend that nothing is happening and keep this wide open door policy is insane.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭bokale


    Think the issue with the ones in ballymun etc is that they are protesting at the place the people are living. If it truly is an issue with government policy they should march to the dail or something. That's why it's intimidatory imo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,325 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    The rise of the nazis occurred in the 'real world', did they not?

    'lol' indeed...



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,228 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    TV Poll. LOL. 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,918 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    If I go by what I seen since I came here…


    Irish society hasn’t actually changed all that much. I’m not sure when you actually came here, but going back as far as Ireland in the 1960’s, Ballymun for example wasn’t any different then than it is now, nor was most of Irish society. This is well worth a watch to give you some idea -

    Housing Conditions Critical in Dublin 1966

    https://www.rte.ie/archives/exhibitions/894-house-and-home/139163-housing-conditions-in-dublin/


    Same group of people experiencing the same conditions, no different then than conditions are now. It’s just that people’s expectations rose as their standards of living increased, and naturally enough as one would expect - as standards of living increase, so too does the cost of living to match it. No shortage of people swanning about with €1,500 iPhones for example. Certainly they weren’t a common sight 20 years ago when they cost about the same.

    There’s no wide open door policy, and providing for refugees is already budgeted for, so it’s not as though the funding is being taken from other services, it was never spent on those services in the first place. That’s why we are now where we are, and in 20 years time again it’ll be someone else telling me when they came here that everything was “3x less than it costs now”, and the open door policy is madness.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,282 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    "There’s no wide open door policy, and providing for refugees is already budgeted for, so it’s not as though the funding is being taken from other services, it was never spent on those services in the first place."

    This is nonsense for example if 3 billion of taxpayers money is earmarked just to provide for Ukranians then thats 3 billion that could gone towards housing, education,health etc.

    Its the same argument that O Gorman makes when he says that housing being built for DP is from a separate budget than that for building social housing. Its all the countries money ffs. It would be like a man explaining to his wife that the money he spends in the pub 7 nights a week has no effect on the household budget.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,072 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    🤣

    You clearly didnt read any of the context of my posts at all.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,441 ✭✭✭batman_oh


    So we should be happy that things are the same as the 1960s in Ballymun while we went from nothing backwater to allegedly one of the richest countries in the world?

    Amazing! We apparently have loads of money now so why shouldn't we expect some of it to be used towards improving the garbage housing situation, healthcare disaster, crap public transport etc.?



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,072 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    🤣🤣🤣

    I know right. I noticed that constant rabbiting on a TV poll.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,918 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    This is nonsense for example if 3 billion of taxpayers money is earmarked just to provide for Ukranians then thats 3 billion that could gone towards housing, education,health etc.


    It didn’t though, is the point of budgeting that you keep missing. Same as if a man agrees with his wife that they shall allocate a certain amount of their household income for entertainment expenses, that’s money that isn’t going towards other things. They’ve already budgeted for other expenses. Government does the same thing. It’s not going to spend any more on education, healthcare or welfare than it has budgeted for already.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,918 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Who is arguing anyone should be happy about it? Personally I couldn’t give a flying fcuk, I suspect that’s not an uncommon attitude towards your ideas of how you think public money should be used, but when Governments are able to give €30M that they didn’t have to, to a toll road company as compensation for the loss of revenue, then that’s bound to raise a few eyebrows among the Public Accounts Committee -

    https://businessplus.ie/news/toll-firms-compensation/

    Provisions for refugees? Not so much.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,433 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Huh???


    And what happens when there is money left over after a budget??

    The wife just burns the money??



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,228 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    This is nonsense for example if 3 billion of taxpayers money is earmarked just to provide for Ukranians then thats 3 billion that could gone towards housing, education,health etc.

    That's not how a budget works, education, health, etc. Is core funding.

    Things like the Ukrainian crisis, Covid, Brexit, etc is non core funding.

    There is funds from EU that we have drawn from for all 3, technically it's an accountancy trick with numbers being moved around.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,918 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    If his wife is managing the household finances, there’s never any such thing as ‘money left over’ 😁

    Governments Departments operate on the same principle - there’s no such thing as ‘money left over’ 😬



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭jay0109


    Pat Kenny just after pulling apart Nick Henderson of the Irish refugee Council. Poor old Nick didn't know what to say at the end of it, he was all over the place. He's so used to getting a soft touch from the Irish media that he was totally unprepared (and probably not capable enough either) for any sort of questioning on who's coming into Ireland, why they really are doing so and how are we going to accommodate them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,441 ✭✭✭batman_oh


    Yeah but sure Ireland will be different. And if it isn't we already have criminals so what's the odd beheading anyway. We might get some exciting street gang warfare like Sweden to talk about too



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    That's the thing, their whole ideology is totally reliant on a compliant media class. Once any hard questions are asked at all, it all falls apart, because it's legitimately indefensible. The media have brought us into this mess as much as any other group, as for years and years they nodded their heads, instead of doing what they should be doing, asking questions.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 16,325 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Probably spent a career throwing an R-word grenade when threatened to shut these sorts of conversations down. When quizzed in Pat's reasonable manner, he had no comeback.

    The upcoming news cut his embarrassing performance mercifully short for him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭HBC08


    Chambers started off as a fairly bright prospect and the people of Mayo and Castlebar in particular had high hopes for her.She was doing particularly well in the early days of Brexit and was destined to be a big player and fresh new voice in FF.

    The Dail voting scandal wasn't the end of her but more the way she squirmed and lied about it,kept digging a hole and made an eejit out of herself.She was swiftly given a kick up the @rse from the voting public in Mayo when she wasnt voted in in the next election.MM still had high hopes for her and snuck her into the Seanad to serve her penance.

    She has no idea what's happening on the ground in her home town (where she doesn't live anymore) with the rising resentment at what was done to nearby village Breaffy (population 1000) now 1750 with Ukrainians and refugees.Important to note here that locals were happy to welcome and do their bit for Ukrainian refugees and the local hotel was given over. The local school is over capacity now and you can't get in to see a doctor but these are emergency times.What the local population are up in arms about is a sports hall beside the hotel covertly being turned into a DP centre for 250 people and migrants being bussed in there under cover of darkness with zero local consultation.It took nearly a month for authorities to even admit and acknowledge that this had happened. The contempt shown magnified the anger big time.

    There is serious anger on the ground about this,Lisa is going to get yet another land at the next election and that'll be her nearly a decade not being a TD and she'll only be about 40 then.Thats some fall from grace and very badly played hand by her.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,676 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    For anybody supporting this policy can you give us people who are concerned where this is going because we are concerned.


    Please just give a few reasons why you think this is a good idea.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,562 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    This is what this sort of fulmination sounds like to the political establishment


    Any suggestion as to who these new super-articulate leaders might be, when they are likely to step forward?



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