BEWARE.Signature windows gone into Liquidation. Any lost money to theses con artists? HELP!!!

joe1303l · 11-01-2023 11:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120095918#Comment_120095918

If liquidated, Revenue and the Banks will be first in the queue to get paid. All other suppliers and customers will unfortunately only get crumbs from the table if there is any.

Hebs14 · 11-01-2023 11:51pm

:-(

Mellor · 12-01-2023 1:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120094832#Comment_120094832

Your should certainly try to negotiate any deal you can*. But I think you need more than "its fair if we split it", as there will be many orders they they have been burned on where nobody is splitting losses with them.

*Personally, my angle would be, stating that they are entitled to keep their stock if they choose. However, in which case, you will be seeking to recover the monies that they have been paid for this order, as they have chosen to retain the stock. might not happy, but worth a shot.

mariamartin555 · 12-01-2023 3:43pm

Has anybody been able to contact the liquidator yet. I was given a mobile number for him and have left a few voicemails. He has now booked my number as his phone rings when I turn my caller ID off.

Still stihl waters 3 · 12-01-2023 7:22pm

@mariamartin555 was it a business phone or his personal phone, if you leave a voicemail and he didn't get back to you he didn't want to talk to you

joe1303l · 12-01-2023 9:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120098775#Comment_120098775

I also rang that number a few times before Christmas. No answer either. Left a voicemail and he never rang back. I’ll try it again tomorrow.

Hebs14 · 13-01-2023 10:38am

I've still heard nothing.

FoxGlen · 13-01-2023 10:08pm

I'm in the same boat here, as far as I'm aware this is the situation;

The liquidator was appointed end of December, the creditors meeting was due to be next week, this should also be posted in the newspapers. Once appointed the liquidator has 14 days to notify CRO.

I've done some searching and this hasn't been notified to CRO, the company's status is still "Normal". I can only assume they are trying to raise the necessary funds to liquidate (the last financial returns show them €636K in debt, the previous year they were €156k in profit. All the company information including directors, finances etc. is available on solocheck.

If it's a Voluntary Liquidation, which is my understanding, the company is required to pay its debts in full within 12 months from the commencement of the winding up date.

On the other hand who knows what's happening behind the scenes. As they accepted deposits with no intention of fulfilling the terms of contracts there is a potential case for fraudulent trading in which case, again only my understanding, I'm open to correction, the owners can become personally liable for the debts of the company (not protected by the limited liability of the company).

Fogmatic · 13-01-2023 11:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120019121#Comment_120019121

Glad you posted your experience as a builder! The general public don't hear the builder's viewpoint enough (and it was ever thus). Husband & ! were ruined financially by similar problems as a small builder in London in the 1980s. A bit of overtrading in hindsight, and a recession, but mainly due to being swindled (including even by some people in the Professions). And builders have been exploited since at least Victorian times. (Sorry, couldn't resist a rant - time to channel it all into that book!).

Mellor · 14-01-2023 2:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120105580#Comment_120105580

I think he was describing being a client.

Builders swindle people far more than they are swindled. Hard for a client to swindle a builder, when the money is going one way.

mariamartin555 · 14-01-2023 3:13pm

I don’t know if it’s his personal or work number. It’s impossible to find any information about him or contact him. I was given his mobile number by some other individuals that are in this forum so am assuming we are all trying to contact him via the same number

Hebs14 · 14-01-2023 8:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120105168#Comment_120105168

Do you know if your windows have been manufactured? Or have you just paid a deposit?

FoxGlen · 14-01-2023 10:19pm

Paid a deposit two weeks before they ceased trading. Signature didn’t pay it to the factory so breach of contract.

Both directors/shareholders are directors of a number of other companies so I’m preparing a complaint to the Director of Corporate Enforcement to see if that does anything.

joe1303l · 15-01-2023 8:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120109572#Comment_120109572

Unlikely that the manufacturer has made anything given that time line. I had heard from somebody in the trade that the people involved have form in this area and a company called Marvin Windows was mentioned. I sent a complaint to the CEA a week ago with regard to the liquidation process and possible reckless trading. Nothing back other than acknowledge my completed complaint form. I rang the CRO also and whilst sympathetic admitted they can do nothing and directed me to the CEA.

Hebs14 · 16-01-2023 12:03pm

I just tried emailing Signature windows sales and installation emails again and the auto reply now includes an email address for the liquidator, Alan Fitzpatrick

signaturewindows676@gmail.com

I emailed that address but it doesn't exist.

joe1303l · 16-01-2023 2:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120114879#Comment_120114879

They really couldn’t handle this any worse if they tried to.

Hebs14 · 16-01-2023 4:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120115656#Comment_120115656

Lol. Yes, my thoughts exactly!

FoxGlen · 16-01-2023 5:07pm

The email I was given is signaturewindow676@gmail.com (singular window, not windows). Haven’t received a response but no bounce back.

Large bottle small glass · 17-01-2023 1:33pm

Has anybody received their windows from Megrame yet?

JimmyMW · 17-01-2023 5:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120106155#Comment_120106155

A bit of both, i was essentially the client but did the house direct labor so was the main builder also

Still stihl waters 3 · 17-01-2023 8:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120119640#Comment_120119640

Have signature paid them to fulfil your ordrr

Large bottle small glass · 17-01-2023 8:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120121658#Comment_120121658

I wonder if their an alternative reason for asking?

Perhaps I have a figure agreed with Megrame and I'd rather not get burnt a second time?

Any other words of wisdom?

Still stihl waters 3 · 17-01-2023 8:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120121682#Comment_120121682

I'm just wondering if megrame have confirmed if signature have paid them in full for windows ordered, there's no alternative reason, sorry if I offended, I know this is a trying time for people owed a product

Large bottle small glass · 17-01-2023 9:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120121786#Comment_120121786

Sorry for taking your head off so 😀

As far as we know, Signature burned everyone; employees with commission as well as presumably redundancy, suppliers, fitters anyone they could at a guess.

What I want to know is after striking a deal on a figure with Megrame for the deficit has anyone actually collected their windows?

Our windows and those of others are in a warehouse in Dublin (we are told) so I'm wondering has anyone collected since the liquidation after dealing directly with Megrame.

I'm told some were lucky to get their windows directly from Signature after they shut as they were in Signature warehouse; these were the only windows that Megrame would have been fully paid for I think

The whole thing is a knowledge vaccum and a guessing/bluffing game.

If time was on my side and i was doing a window replacement only and I had existing windows I'd use time and a bit of patience as my bargaining chip to drive deal as much as possible. That and windows already being in Ireland are your main/only bargaining chips.

Best of luck to everyone else

Hebs14 · 18-01-2023 11:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120122078#Comment_120122078

I am still in discussion with Megrame. They have told me our windows are in their warehouse in Lithuania (I asked specifically after hearing that some were in Dublin).

bananagrams · 24-01-2023 11:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032164#Comment_120032164

Hi there - would love these too if you got them? Literally can't find anything on line - is no-one on our side! Would be so grateful for any info you have. Thank you!

AmeliaKK · 24-01-2023 5:19pm

Hi just wondering if anyone has had products delivered from doleta (aluminium) directly since liquidation was announced ? We were badly burned by signature on our wood order with Megrame which we had deposit paid since Oct 22 but hadn’t started . In addition, our aluminium slider with Doleta was already in production so with a lot of emails it’s due to arrive here on Thursday 26th however we had to pay €1500 for shipping and we now have window fitters charging ridiculous amounts to fit a slider and fixed panel… is anyone else finding this?! So not only are we out of pocket for our wood part of order, we are also paying over and above for shipping and fitting for our aluminium order. Lucky I know to get anything at all back but it’s one hit after another…

Hebs14 · 25-01-2023 11:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120149815#Comment_120149815

I've sent you a PM. Not sure how much use these details will be though, because I haven't heard of anyone who has had a reply from the liquidator or the Directors :(

Hebs14 · 01-02-2023 12:19pm

Hi. Anyone made any progress ? I haven't.... still shouting into the abyss!!

Muahahaha · 01-02-2023 5:34pm

Did anyone who paid via credit or debit card try to get a chargeback and did the bank allow it?

joe1303l · 08-02-2023 3:43pm

I’d say most people paid by bank transfer as theses details were provided on the order form by Signature.

Alpha99 · 12-02-2023 8:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120188027#Comment_120188027

Long story: I insisted on a card payment, was directed to pay deposit to 'sister company' Cardinal Windows & Doors Ltd, no, bank have not to date honoured chargeback request.

Markcheese · 12-02-2023 9:22am

Any chance that customers whose windows are actually built could club together ? To negotiate with megram and organize shipping to Ireland , it might reduce costs ?

Muahahaha · 12-02-2023 5:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231065#Comment_120231065

Pretty shady sending you to a 'sister' company. Have you tried pressing the bank or going to the Financial Services Ombudsman? I thought chargebacks existed for this reason for when customers pay money and get nothing in return.

Could be a different story if the bank account on the other end is closed down/empty though. But Id try pressing the issue with the bank if you can as that would seem the easiest route to a refund.

Hebs14 · 14-02-2023 12:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231065#Comment_120231065

That sounds highly dodgy. Is Cardinal Windows and Doors an Irish Company?

I have made a complaint to the Corporate Enforcement Authority. I've had an acknowledgement from them which advises that I might not hear anything back from them incase they decide they go ahead with legal proceedings. I'm not hopeful it will do any good, but I guess it's worth a try. You have to inform the Directors about your grievances in writing, which I did (twice), before making the complaint. The form is straightforward enough, if anyone else wants to give it a go, here's the link https://cea.gov.ie/en-ie/What-We-Do/Complaints-Concerns-Protected-Disclosures

Is anyone else waiting to get their windows from Megrame? We're in discussions with them and I'm trying to find some money to give them. Any contingency we had has already been sucked up by the cost increase in materials and other unexpected things, so this is really the last thing we needed. In fairness to Megrame, they've been very willing to discuss options, but they've lost a lot of money too so are not budging much on the amount they're looking for. They say they have people who will buy our windows.... I'm scared they will do this and we'll have lost €35K and will have no windows.

Markcheese · 14-02-2023 12:38pm

Is there a chance that by " cardinal windows " taking the money ( on behalf of the other crowd ) , that legally your contract is now with them ?

So either they owe you the windows or cash back ,

Or the credit card company would refund you because cardinal won't honour the contract ..

Just spitballing .. but might be worth enquiring..

Hebs14 · 18-02-2023 7:24pm

Signature windows website is back up and their phones are operational.

Thoughts?

joe1303l · 21-02-2023 11:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258502#Comment_120258502

Bizarre but Solocheck still showing company status as normal. I’ll be trying ringing them in the morning.

Hebs14 · 21-02-2023 11:16pm

I rang the numbers and pressed all of the different options but no one picked up and there's no way to leave a message.

I also emailed but didn't get an autoresponse this time....but no reply either.

Something dodgy going on probably.

joe1303l · 22-02-2023 12:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120272954#Comment_120272954

Tried the email also tonight, no autoreply

joe1303l · 22-02-2023 9:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273187#Comment_120273187

As per Hebs14, phone ringing out today no matter what option you pick. Left a voicemail, no call returned.

mariamartin555 · 23-02-2023 5:26pm

Just wanted to share that the offical notice has gone into the papers today about the liquidation and creditors meeting

Hebs14 · 23-02-2023 7:49pm

Thank you!

And hallelujah! Maybe someone will finally talk to us...... maybe......

joe1303l · 23-02-2023 9:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279928#Comment_120279928

What newspaper was it published in ?

Am I correct in thinking that no customers (unsecured creditors) were advised of this meeting directly by the liquidator ?

mariamartin555 · 23-02-2023 10:31pm

@joe1303l i believe this was published in The Sun. I as a customer was not contacted directly by the liquidator. I have tried contacting him directly on a number of occasions in early January and he would not return any of my calls and then blocked my number. I will be interested to hear if anyone else has any luck contacting him.

joe1303l · 23-02-2023 10:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120281211#Comment_120281211

Same here, rang several times, left messages no calls returned.

joe1303l · 26-02-2023 9:28pm

Sunday Times carried a 2 page article today on Signature but no more information much than has been kicked around here already. Article here for anyone that didn’t see it. Mods feel free to remove if there is a copyright issue.

joe1303l · 26-02-2023 9:30pm

Page 2

Hebs14 · 26-02-2023 11:08pm

Another version here, from the printed version of the Sunday Times, but this includes some interesting info on Cardinal Windows at the end of the article. Also a sentence about someone opposing Alan Fitzpatricks nominated as liquidator. Wonder why it was deleted in the online version?

walterking · 27-02-2023 12:29am

Very poor article. Looks like the author just took information from this thread and has provided zero information from any source for the customers.

Back in the day when journalists actually did some real investigation they would have talked to a liquidation expert, maybe trawl through previous year accounts and challenged the directors for more aggressively.

Instead you get a rehash of what's out in the public domain anyway.

If someone was interested, you could collect proxies against the nomination of liquidator by the company and put forward your own nomination.

If all the proxies exceed the votes the company has, then the proxy liquidator is appointed.

I'd be getting legal advice

https://reddycharlton.ie/insights/how-to-make-your-vote-count-your-guide-to-creditors-meetings/

BEWARE.Signature windows gone into Liquidation. Any lost money to theses con artists? HELP!!!

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