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Indoor saorview aerial possible? Fermoy

  • 01-01-2023 8:00pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,004 ✭✭✭


    Hi folks,


    At the in-laws outside fermoy cork and set up an amiko mini hd box for them. All good on the satellite front but no saorview aerial. Would there be any sense trying an indoor aerial or would a rooftop aerial be only option? I've tried the saorview signal checker and it says either mitchelstown or fermoy transmitter.


    Thanks,

    Mick



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,852 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Impossible to say sitting on the other side of the internet because the signal where you locate the aerial will be specific to that location.

    How far away is the house from the Fermoy transmitter, transmitter power, any natural obstructions between the house and transmitter?

    If the Fermoy transmitter is near enough but probably on low power it might be worth testing an indoor or basic outdoor contract aerial in the attic.

    Iirc the Saorview coverage checker data is modelled on an external aerial mounted 10m agl.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,004 ✭✭✭micks_address


    Thank you for the reply. Are the likes of these aerials any use?


    This is what the saorview checker gives me based on eircode





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,004 ✭✭✭micks_address


    I should also say they have an aerial that brings in saorview in another room from the roof but it's not feasible to easily run a cable from it to the room with the amiko box and they don't want the cost of getting someone to run a other cable from the rooftop aerial



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,868 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Mitchelstown is 500 Watts, Fermoy 50 Watts, both low power.

    Another version of the coverage map can be seen on this site. As Cush says, coverage maps are based on having an external aerial. Only way to find out is to try an indoor one to see if it works. If there are nearby neighbours, they might have some knowledge.

    https://ukfree.tv/transmitters/tv/Fermoy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,004 ✭✭✭micks_address


    This is probably a daft question but would an indoor aerial have a better chance of working given there's already an aerial on the roof? Can an indoor aerial grab signal from the roof aerial?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,868 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Probably the opposite, depending on who did the installation. If an indoor aerial was sufficient, there would be no need for one on the roof. The indoor one will only get whatever signal is coming into the room, not the roof. Moving it around while looking at the signal quality menu would be the usual way of seeing what location in the room is best, if there is enough signal.

    Check the menu to see what channel numbers are being received from the roof signal, to confirm which transmitter. And the menu to see the signal quality and strength.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,688 ✭✭✭winston_1


    That advert is rubbish and should be pulled. The laws or physics and the curvature of the earth do not allow an aerial to receive UHF signals 480kM away.

    It is not possible to quote aerial performance by distance as there are so many variables, transmitter power, local obstructions, height, you name it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,852 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    A new cable doesn't have to be run back to the roof.

    Would it be possible to run a cable from the existing TV point to the new TV point or from somewhere else along the existing cable run? A small amplifier might be required to give the signal a boost to the new TV point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,852 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    No.

    The aerial on the roof is just a passive receiving aerial that intercepts the transmitted signal and sends it down a cable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,004 ✭✭✭micks_address


    Thanks folks, I don't mind buying an indoor aerial for them and trying it the next time we visit which won't be for a month or so anyway. What indoor aerial would give the best chance of success? I don't think there's anywhere local open today I'd get an aerial to try.


    Cheers,

    Mick

    Post edited by micks_address on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    If you have a TV with signal strength information on the tuning pages and you are able to find a coax plug and cable, connect the cable to the plug and on the opposite end strip out and separate the inner cable and the braid.

    The braid and inner needs to be at right angles to the cable, like a cross without the top bit and about 11 cm each. You will find it easier if you tape these "dipoles" to someting none metallic such as a 22cm length of dowel.

    This is a basic 1/4 wave dipole and will indicate some king of signal if any indoor aerial stands a chance. It is not as presentable as the stuff you see on Ebay, but will work.

    You will need to rotate and move it to find a signal assuming there is one available. Invite a few friends, the procedure can provide a lot of amusement for onlookers :-)


    After years in the TV trade, I can honestly say that although I saw quite a few being used in the UK, very few indoor aerials gave a watchable performance in the analogue days. My city had a local UHF TV repeater too and I worked within fifteen or so miles of its location.

    The odd one or two customers seemed to have success with a coathanger pushed into the aerial socket, which technically was too big for UHF and had no proper ground plane, but you can never apply hard and fast rules when it comes to signal propagation where there are many obstacles and reflective surfaces.


    The other thing to bear in mind with indoor aerials is that most are designed to attract customers and not a signal. The other point is, there is no such thing as a digital aerial, just in case you are swayed by the technical advertising.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 93,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,004 ✭✭✭micks_address


    Thanks won't get to try that today. Might just see if I can find an installer locally and pay them to sort it out. Feels like indoor option be flaky at best. Hopefully won't cost a lot to run a cable from an existing aerial setup.


    Thanks for all the replies,

    Mick



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 218 ✭✭sham58107


    Got one of these, thought smaller and only about 20 euro from Amazon ,(cant do link sorry ),for TV in back bedroom ,works perfectly for all saorview channels and option to plug into usb on TV ,so no power outlet needed, I am in Meath so may be nearer to transmitter ,but as I said no problems at all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,875 ✭✭✭Buffman


    Just FYI OP I've successfully used an outdoor saorview aerial in the attic in the past where for various reasons people didn't want it on the roof.

    FYI, if you move to a 'smart' meter electricity plan, you CAN'T move back to a non-smart plan.

    You don't have to take a 'smart' meter if you don't want one, opt-out is available.

    Buy drinks in 3L or bigger plastic bottles or glass bottles or cartons to avoid the DRS fee.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,004 ✭✭✭micks_address


    Cheers folks back in Dublin now. I might buy one from Amazon and try on our own TV. Have a aerial on the roof but be interesting to see if it would work.


    Reviews of the one I linked to seem good on Amazon but looks overpriced. If was my own house would get it done to roof aerial but older folks can be bit peculiar about these things.. they'd rather go without the channels than have someone out to sort it but if I can get an indoor solution they don't care.


    Anyone have recommended buy for 'best' indoor aerial if that's even a thing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,688 ✭✭✭winston_1


    What happens in Dublin has no bearing on what will happen in Cork. Different transmitter, different channels, different signal levels etc.


    As I said the one you linked to:

    "That advert is rubbish and should be pulled. The laws or physics and the curvature of the earth do not allow an aerial to receive UHF signals 480kM away.

    It is not possible to quote aerial performance by distance as there are so many variables, transmitter power, local obstructions, height, you name it."


    If it had good reviews they are fake. Did any of them receive stations 480kM away?


    If you must try an indoor aerial get a Telecam TCE2000. DON'T get the amplified version.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,004 ✭✭✭micks_address


    Seems like telecam are discontinued? Also why not amplified?


    Our house in Dublin is about the same distance from kippure that they are from the transmitter in cork. I know won't be great comparison but curious if it would even work

    Thanks,

    Mick



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 456 ✭✭moceri


    Aerial in the attic will work fine. You could also add a masthead amplifier to send a 12V signal to improve reception in a weak signal area.

    Something like this....https://www.freetv.ie/saorview/amplifiers/



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,004 ✭✭✭micks_address


    It might be worth having a sticky or something on indoor aerials and advice on where they might/not work in general. I've ordered one to try in my own house and will see how it goes. If it works ill try in the inlaws whenever im down again.. i know it might work in my house and not there.. but will give it a go anyway. Thanks for all the replies and advice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,644 ✭✭✭cml387


    Just FYI the Fermoy booster is located close to the old railway station



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,688 ✭✭✭winston_1


    OK in that case go for an Antiference Silver Sensor.


    Amplifiers are designed to overcome the loss on a long run of coax downlead which you don't have on an indoor aerial.

    On an indoor aerial they are a waste of time, money, and electricity. They will just amplify all the local noise so you get louder noise and no improvement of s/n ratio.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,688 ✭✭✭winston_1




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,004 ✭✭✭micks_address


    Hi folks,

    Just a follow up on this.

    I purchased this from Amazon

    Before I seen the link for the other ones..tried it in my house in Dublin.. yes I know it's not fermoy.. picked up signal that looks pretty strong if placed in the right position. If I turn off the amplifier it picks up nothing.


    Cheers,

    Mick





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,688 ✭✭✭winston_1


    That is because a switched off amplifier passes nothing, not that it proves it is required. The test is to bypass the amplifier. 49dB is a ridiculous amount of gain for an amp, think of all that local noise amplified bu 49dB. Oh and there is no such thing as a digital antenna.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,644 ✭✭✭cml387


    That looks like SKY news you're watching. If it is then it's not Saorview.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,400 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    Sky News has been on Saorview for a couple of years now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,644 ✭✭✭cml387




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,004 ✭✭✭micks_address


    tried it by passing the amplifier - you can plug the aeriel directly into the tv.. and i can get some reception but it breaks up.. the amplifier is having some positive effect.. ultimately i need to test this in cork which i might not be there again for 6 months so who knows! curious if the antiference would be better or worse or the same.. sans amplifier but different design



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,688 ✭✭✭winston_1


    Buy one and see. You can always send the other one back to Amazon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 618 ✭✭✭TAFKAlawhec


    Just to add my €0.02 - unless you can physically see the transmitting mast from where the indoor aerial is pointing, all bets are off concerning indoor UHF TV reception. But that's not to say that it is impossible beyond a certain distance - an upstairs TV of mine can quite happily get both Saorview multiplexes from the Triuskmore TX site in Co. Sligo over a distance of 71km using a DIY indoor aerial that involves using two soft drink cans! Though it helps that there are no obstructions in the path between Truskmore and my home.

    Old "rabbit ears" aerials that are often designed for analogue VHF TV & FM radio (as well as DAB where available) are sometimes suggested and dismissed (especially by one particular poster often in this sub-forum) but they can be optimised for UHF TV reception by simply retracting each telescopic leg to a length of 10-15cm each, forming a basic dipole for UHF TV frequencies. You can usually find such aerials cheaply in the likes of Dealz or other such shops and for only a couple of/few Euros, it's your best chance of a simple win if it works. This is easier to work with if the received signals you want are horizontally polarised, but can work with vertically polarised signals too. If you get everything with the aerial in one acceptable position, then you have a result. Sometimes putting the telescopic legs at an angle of up to 30 degrees can help a little.

    If you get some channels but not others, or some/all channels are subject to breaking up, then a (slightly) better indoor aerial could do the trick. The previously mentioned Telecam TCE2000 was a very good indoor aerial but it hasn't been in production for quite a few years now. Indoor aerials that look like a miniature outdoor aerial are the ones to look for - aerials that look like a loop (either circular or square) aren't as good in comparison. Though I've no experience of it, the Antiference Silver Sensor (unamplified version) is well regarded in such cases like this. If nothing else, a small log-periodic or yagi without a big reflector element aerial that could be stuck up on top of a wardrobe for example, purchased with a cable & relevant connector(s) could also be worth doing. No point buying anything bigger for indoor "set top" reception unless you plan to stick in in an attic/loft.

    As far as amplified indoor aerials go, they won't do anything that a decent unamplified indoor aerial can't do at least 9 times out of 10. People on this part of boards.ie have popped up to speak of the marvels of how the amplified (usually One4All) set top aeril worked when nothing else would work. Often they just took a shortcut and found an easy win but at a more expensive cost. Most amplified aerials don't have a simple pass-through in the amplifier if its not powered so they won't deliver all of the received power through it if there's no power for the amplifier, so it acts as an attenuator instead. Also, the claimed "gain" of such amplified aerials are of no real use. Amplifiers are designed to overcome losses in cables as well as some amount of noise in the tuner - as indoor aerials have very little losses in the short cable run they have (even if the cable is quite ****), then it's of little real use. Real gain comes from the aerial with directors & reflector and the higher up it is the better in most cases. That's why outdoor aerials are advised for your best shot of reception. If you must an amplified aerial, then choose one that has a modest amount of gain (no more than 12-15db) to avoid overloading the tuner. If you're using an amplified aerial that you bought from Argos etc. and it works for you, then that's fine - I'm just saying that it's very likely an unamplified solution like that mentioned in the last paragraph would work just as well, especially outside rural areas.

    Finally, aerials sold as "up to xxxkm/miles" mean nothing and are an American marketing term that has been brought over to this side of the Atlantic by sellers on eBay & Amazon. Realistically even for reliable outdoor reception from a high powered transmitter site that has a tall mast/tower well above the local topology, you're pretty much restricted to reliable reception between 50-75km away from the TX, with some reductions where line-of-sight isn't possible and/or co-channel interference is a possible issue. In some favourable cases you could get reception over 100km away but that's not the case for most people (and co-channel interference is likely to be a bigger problem). Yes, I'm lucky that I can get indoor reception from over 70km away - but that's because I'm lucky.



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