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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,968 ✭✭✭Big Ears


    Someone with more military knowledge that me can expand on whether this would even be useful anyway, but we also have a double neutrality problem.

    We ourselves are neutral, and would need a change in our Constitution to donate arms to Ukraine and secondly some of our equipment is Switz, which as a neutral country does not allow it's equipment to be exported to a country actively involved in war like Ukraine.

    The majority of our IFV's are Mowag Piranhas III's which are Switz, some of our heavy mortars are also Switz and this probably (again someone with actually military knowledge can correct me on this) is the only offensive equipment we have which would be moderately useful to the Ukrainians at the moment. Perhaps our anti-tank weapons aswell, but what could we even afford to give away there 1,000-1,500 ?, it's negligible stuff.

    Our best course of action is to increase humanitarian aid, to lessen the load on some other countries and allow them to concentrate their resources and money on sending offensive weapons beyond our capabilities.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,557 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    Exactly. Weapons just won't happen, but there is still more we can do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    @Big Ears We ourselves are neutral, and would need a change in our Constitution to donate arms to Ukraine and secondly some of our equipment is Switz


    We are neutral in government policy only,

    If the government had testicles they could send 2000 Anti tank missles but you are correct some of them are swiss which they would block us from sending any ,we do Also have bofars 40mm anti aircraft guns and Saab giraffe tracking radars



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,465 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    "It is a game of chess between USA and Russia. Where USA has moved a pawn into action and said 'check' and now the other party makes their even uglier move. It's a cynical and horrible game of chess with both parties being sh1ts but it is not Russias game alone."

    But the US and Biden didn't want Russia to invade Ukraine and were trying everything in their power to stop it from happening. There were frantic diplomatic efforts going on behind the scenes in an attempt to de-escalate the tension and Anthony Blinken met the Russians several times early last year. But Putin kept ramping up the tension and rhetoric throughout January and February and making more and more outrageous demands of the West and NATO.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Seems like some people live in total denial ........



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,329 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    It’s a game of chess…


    FFS Russia and its merry band of followers are a cancer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭zv2


    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This is why Crimea needs to be returned to Ukraine. No ethnic cleansing/importing Russians should be rewarded.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,569 ✭✭✭Field east


    And leave the building from the ground floor if you are allowed!



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Irish components found in Russian weapons used in Ukraine,

    Wonder what happened to neutrality.





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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    You are so ill informed it's not worth discussing.

    A team of 18 French forensic experts has arrived in Kyiv to investigate the killings in the Ukrainian town of Bucha.

    It aims to help Ukraine with the investigation that Russia committed war crimes in the city.

    Investigators from the Institut de recherche criminelle de la gendarmerie nationale (IRCGN) are using

    ICC Prosecutor Karim A.A. Khan QC announces deployment of forensics and investigative team to Ukraine, welcomes strong cooperation with the Government of the Netherlands


    I can confirm that today my Office has deployed a team of 42 investigators, forensic experts and support personnel to Ukraine to advance our investigations into crimes falling into the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court (“ICC” or the “Court”) and provide support to Ukrainian national authorities. This represents the largest ever single field deployment by my Office since its establishment.

    The first Lithuanian law enforcement team has arrived in Ukraine to help investigate war crimes and crimes against humanity committed by the Russian army, Lithuania's Prosecutor General's Office said on Thursday. The team of 40 people includes representatives of the Lithuanian Prosecutor General's Office, the police, the Lithuanian Police Forensic Science Centre and the State Forensic Medical Service.

    THE HAGUE, Netherlands — An international organization formed to identify the dead and missing from the 1990s Balkan conflicts is preparing to send a team of forensics experts to Ukraine as the death toll mounts more than six weeks into the war caused by Russia's invasion.

    Authorities in Kyiv have reached out to the International Commission on Missing Persons to help put names to bodies that might otherwise remain anonymous amid the fog of war...The organization's laboratory in an office block on a busy street in The Hague will build a central database cataloging evidence and the identities of the missing.


    British counter-terrorism police are gathering evidence of potential war crimes after receiving over 50 reports following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

    The Metropolitan Police’s War Crimes Team, a unit within its counter-terrorism command, said Friday it already received dozens of referrals from people with a link to the UK.

    Many of the referrals came from those who have directly fled the conflict unfolding in their homeland.

    Metropolitan Police’s headquarters, Scotland Yard, announced last month it was supporting the International Criminal Court probe into alleged war crimes.


    Britain will send investigators to Ukraine to help gather evidence of war crimes, including sexual violence, the foreign secretary, Liz Truss, has said.

    Then Ukraine recaptured Izium:

    Torture, Executions, Rape Among Russian War Crimes In Ukraine, UN Reports: Sep 23, 2022,07:44am EDT

    A group of United Nations investigators tasked with reviewing suspected war crimes Ukraine announced Friday they found extensive evidence of Russian atrocities against both military and civilian targets, marking the latest inquiry to claim proof of Russian offenses.

    ...Evidence of sexual and gender-based violence has also been found in victims, who range in age from 4 to 82.

    ...“The Commission has documented cases in which children have been raped, tortured and unlawfully confined,” Møse said. “Children have also been killed and injured in indiscriminate attacks with explosive weapons.”

    The exhumation of graves found in Izium was done with multiple international news and camera crews filming everything and acting as independent witnesses to verify everything. Some of the forensic people were not from Ukraine:

    I could go on... As for setting any record straight, you are not capable.

    Crawl back into your UFO with your lizard people friends and fly away for good, would you, before I throw up. And you can take any upvoters with you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Neutrality is a moral sickness and an outright evil, in my opinion.

    If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.

    Desmond Tutu


    With a great moral issue involved, neutrality does not serve righteousness; for to be neutral between right and wrong is to serve wrong.

    Theodore Roosevelt


    “The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.”

    ― Dante Alighieri


    “Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral. ”

    ― Paulo Freire


    Take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim.

    Elie Wiesel



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    All depends on what year of the Lord the items were supplied in, and if recent, were they supplied direct?



  • Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭junkyarddog


    Orcs using Ukrainian uniforms to try and cause chaos to the defenders.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Bollocks. Emotive and oft warmongering bollocks, but bollocks nonetheless. You do seem prone to it, though you're hardly alone in this thread on that score. For a start neutral and independent parties can serve as arbitrators, investigators and peacemakers because they have no dog in the fight. A sure sign that Bucha is a Russian atrocity is that Ukraine have many non Ukrainian eyes on it, as you noted above. If it were just Ukraine investigating only the naive would be quick to believe them. If it were just Russia only a moron would be.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭Asdfgh2020


    Since when is Putin or any of his cnuts of generals worried about accuracy of missiles. Once the weapon / missle makes it across Ukraine territory is all they care about



  • Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭junkyarddog


    FFS!!

    Where is all this German efficiency that they have built their reputation on!

    Get your finger out Germany!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭Hobgoblin11


    Russian serviceman has blown up RGD-5 grenade at his military unit in Belgorod region, killing 3, wounding 10 and blowing up the ammunition storage


    Dundalk, Co. Louth



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    The fact they're "wasting" missiles on non military targets should tell us all we need to know. They're twats, and they're desperate.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭junkyarddog


    Largest theft of art since the Nazis in world war 2!!

    But,iT's tHE UrAINiaNs ThAT aRE thE NaZIs🙄



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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Sniper rifles, vehicles, ammunition, ATG-4s, a few Javelins, off the top of my head. **** neutrality, it's for moral degenerates and cowards. Wibbs accuses me of being emotive - damn right, along with all those peole whose quotes I posted. I'll wear that accusation with pride.

    Several days after Sasha’s birthday (9th), her family was forced to flee from Russian invaders. As Gostomel was evacuated, the child’s stepfather died as he tried to drive the family to safety. The girl was wounded, but the shelling of the invading force prevented her from immediately reaching a hospital. Consequently, Sasha and her mother undertook several days of hiding in the cellar of a house in Bucha. The girl underwent surgery at the hospital after they were miraculously saved a few days later. Unfortunately, her arm had to be amputated.

    I believe she had gangrene. She wasn't just injured in a blast - she was shot in the arm by someone looking down the sights of a weapon at a child who pulled the trigger to try and kill her. It wasn't an accident or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time, she was targeted with deliberation.

    She has since travelled to the US where she has received a hi-tech prosethitic arm from a country that isn't neutral.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,076 ✭✭✭threeball


    Providing weapons isn't our forte so I don't see any point in us sending a miniscule amount of arms.

    We produce the best food quality in the world. We should be providing ration packs and quality clothing/shelters. These things are equality as important as weapons. No point in a miserable, undernourished solider operating the finest of weapons as he'll be working at sub par levels. This is where ireland can provide real value.

    Ask a Russian up to his neck in shít in a trench whether he'd prefer a nice meal and a change of clothes or a stinger and you'll find it's not the later.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,076 ✭✭✭threeball


    Time to jettison these fcuks from the EU. A warning to any other members that if you cosy up to regimes that are contrary to our beliefs and standards that you'll be out on your ear. Orban would be hanging off a lamppost by tea time.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    She could have gotten the exact same treatment in a neutral nation. We've treated Ukrainian casualties here and have one of the highest per capita of Ukrainian refugees, with among the fewest restrictions. We're neutral. Neutral doesn't mean you don't do anything.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,076 ✭✭✭threeball


    But they're not accompanied by Russian investigators so it's all a big western conspiracy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭rogber


    The Russian scum strike again.

    Problems on the battlefield.

    Solution: attack apartment blocks and kill civilians.

    F*cking nauseating, no matter how often it repeats



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,076 ✭✭✭threeball


    German efficiency is a self propagated myth. A story they developed in order to sell more goods. I deal with loads of German companies and they are no more efficient than any country and often a good deal worse. They also believe their own infallibility which is worse.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    They are hedging their bets. I'd say a lot of the main western players privately still do not believe Ukraine can win the war despite the successes until now and don't want any advanced expensive weaponry falling in to Russian hands.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    We have a government that just posted a €12 billion surplus for novemeber, we could buy ammunition and weapons and deliver them. Mark Hamill is trying to raise money for drones for Ukraine, after he's already bought over 50 himself.

    A tiny fraction of €12 billion would buy all the drones Ukraine needs. These are non lethal items that are not weapons, so some some could salve their gangrene infested consciences with that thought.

    This 'oh we don't have any weapons BS' is just that. Money can be turned into weapons very readily.

    Ireland could close the Russian embassy, which is one of the largest Russian espionage centres in Europe and is known to have even run espionage ops in the US. Hosting that fuc​king thing is not being neutral, it's helping the Orcs - a lot!

    You know what I think? That hack of the HSE was done by the Russian government and they have all the health records of the population of this country and are using the release of that info as blackmail to stop the Irish government lifting a finger they don't like. The Irish government is dealing with terrorists and giving into blackmailers. But boy does the Irish government have form for moral cowardice and giving succour to perpetrators of evil - burying the catholic church's abuses and hiding them under a smokescreen of legislation that didn't even include any financial penalties, the Irish tax payer was put on the hook for paying for those sins.

    We'll happily pay for the CC's sins and sexual deviance, but not weapons for Ukraine to help them face up to evil. What a bunch of mealy mouthed sickos.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Only to Russians. And morons. Russia has always tried to frame their narratives, even more than most, and Russians went along with it, at least publicly. That'll take a huge, in the Russian sense, loss of lives, or another generation to filter out. Or both.

    Either way Russia as we/they knew it is done. Even if they took Kyiv in the morning. They're in terminal demographic collapse and are piling on that collapse with every cardboard coffin that goes home. Militarily they look like something from the Great War. Their arms industry? Well who will want to buy any of their kit again? Economically they're doomed. They've lost access to pretty much all international leasing, insurance and financing. They have huge natural resources but few takers anymore and what there are want firesale prices. Their gas fund from Europe is gone and they don't have gas lines to their apparent "friends". "Friends" who are far more invested in the West anyway. They're selling their oil at below cost to nations who are only too happy to take that deal and whatever else they can take down the line. In BRICS they're now falling down the pecking order. Internal fracture isn't unlikely and with every month of this war more likely. When amoral mega investment corporations have placed their huge pile of chips on the Ukraine pot, that's all you and they need to know. Stick a fork in them, they're done. But like the huge dinosaur they are, it'll likely take some time before all those fatal wounds are felt in the brain. Their mortal thrashings are going to be the dangerous bit.

    Is there any way out for them? Maybe if they called an actual ceasefire and left the south and returned to the lines of their "independent republics"(and Crimea) they claimed they went in to protect and ran to the UN to try and sell that. Even then... and no way would the hawks in Moscow swallow that anyway. Maybe if Putin fell out of a window drinking a nice cup of tea all the way down...

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



This discussion has been closed.
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