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Right to Housing Referendum

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    A new city needs to be built from scratch right in the middle of the country. Build all the services there and then build the houses. Surround it with a ring road. Link this road to all the other major roads. Build a train station right in the middle first. Link this station to all the other rail lines. And plan for an underground too.

    Then build high rise housing and offices. Make it a proper city, well served. They will have no problem getting people to move to it.

    Thats a whol;e lot easier than playing catchup trying to build housing all over Dublin or anywhere else, with the disruption and then the heavy lean on current infrastructure without the ability to improve said infrastructure. They need to start a new city with a blank slate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,807 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    🙄.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,678 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    I'm not having a go at you personally, but this is simply not a feasible proposition. The logistics and cost alone make it untenable, but let's imagine what would happen if Ireland put out the words that "Paddyopolis" were to be built. Every NGO, investment fund, charity, tech-company or what have you would suffer a stroke in the effort to get in on what would be guaranteed to be the grift of the century.

    What's needed to address the housing crisis is a realistic appraisal of what's happening and why it's happening. I do not ever see this happening, however, as those who mare making the decisions on this matter are doing everything to worsen the situation and little to alleviate it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭DubCount


    A referendum on housing will not solve anything. The answer to the housing crisis is simple - more homes and more social homes in particular.

    The first thing we need to get straight is what is a reasonable level of home for someone who cannot provide a home for themselves. We used to have that fairly clear idea of that - council houses. Standard build, standard design and that was social housing. Now we want choice based letting and social tenants in private estates etc. and expectations of what everyone should be receiving is very unclear.

    Go back to the councils building social housing estates to provide social housing and leave the private sector work itself out by Supply and Demand without government interference.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    I know its not going to happen. But if it did it would, as i pointed out many times, be easier and cheaper than getting out of the hole we are in by just trying to buy sites and build houses in the current cities.

    We have [assed the point of no return already. The housing problems are never going to be fixed. It has been let go too far.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,386 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    we have to accept our whole approach to housing has collapsed, some radical needs to change, but some decisions made along the way to this change will be questionable and problematic....



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,678 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    I agree. The time to do take action was after the crash of 2008, but the opportunity for reform was simply squandered in favour of short term gains for certain groups at the expense of others. I don't know what's going to happen, but I can guarantee that the human cost will be huge.

    I agree with your second paragraph. The idea that someone can be "given" a house for a song whilst other have to pay for one is maddening. I personally know several people who are living in rather nice social houses in good areas whilst people who work languish in their parents' homes.

    Of course, the elephant in the room of immigration will need to be addressed before any attempt at a solution can realistically be made. I've no problem with people moving to Ireland, but there needs to be a cap to reflect the availability of housing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,386 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...ah we re clearly going to move back to a more state run housing model, but an astonishing level of economic and social damage will occur during so, an astonishing level of state borrowing will occur, which will also mean taxes in general will rise, in order to facilitate this, so.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Kurooi


    I'd be excited if I didn't know this was another measure to shift more money from taxpayers into corporate pockets.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,678 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    I think that's where we're going, and that's precisely why this referendum makes me very, very worried.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭farmingquestion


    This is essentially the same as the "right to water".

    You have a right to water but you don't have a right to have it treated and piped into your house.

    This will be the same. You'll officially have a right to "housing" which will be accommodation. As far as I know, everyone in the country already has shelter provided if they want it. Some homeless choose to sleep on the streets.

    So in short, adding this right to housing to the constitution will change nothing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,386 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...tis the only solution, but we cant keep taxing the bollcoks out of the general population for this though, so we re gonna have to hit up wealthy entities more so, in order to do so, and that wont be easy, if even possible!

    ...its clearly obvious the whole process is completely fcuked, in nearly every possible way, the term 'polycrisis' is the perfect term for this moment in history....



  • Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭SwimClub


    That would ignore the timing of this when a 'temporary' ban on taking vacant possession of your property was brought in and the main obstacle to making it permanent was in the constitution. Fast forward a few months and we have a referendum to change the constitution.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭The Spider


    Well it’ll change nothing for those looking for housing, however for those among us who already own houses, our rights could be seriously limited, government could commandeer holiday homes, who knows you could be forced to take people into your house, if you have a large garden it might be easier to CPO it for development.



  • Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭Thestart


    I don’t buy the ‘it won’t change anything’ narrative. They wouldn’t do it if it didn’t change anything.

    I don’t trust the government with anything. Think about housing the HSE total disasters for all involved.

    If the government buy apartments off plan they will be the most expensive apartments ever built. Just like the children's hospital.

    Leave well alone.

    I would be worried about the referendum on water too. We pay taxes for water and always have, what needs to change there and why?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭Grolschevik


    Wow. That's a really bad picture of Pat Miller...!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,678 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    It's the only solution? It is the state that printed war-time levels of funny-money in the last few years. It is the state that refuses to operate a sensible policy towards immigration. If this referendum were to pass, it would grant these same people more power, and they have shown that that are unworthy of trust time and time again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,386 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ahhh you should have a good look at that again, the majority of the global money supply in fact comes from the global financial system in the form of credit, and its been largely used to (re)inflate the value of assets such as property, central bank created money in the form of qe was ultimately the backbone of all of this, as the reserve accounts of these financial institutions was credited in the process, allowing this significant rise in credit, i.e. private debt, which again, was ultimately used in these financialised activities, including share buy backs etc....

    the usual right narrative has again presented itself, i.e. ultimately blaming the public money supply, i.e. such as deficits, and immigration policies etc, when in fact the fault is ultimately with how the money, in both the public and private domains has been (mis)used, i.e. financialisation and financialised activities etc, as explained

    all of this has now lead to such outcomes as.....

    ....i.e. rapidly rising wealth inequalities......

    ...again, the only way out of this is the introduction of public policies to try move this in the opposite direction, which includes increasing the public money supply, i.e. deficits, but to make sure they are not used to maintain this status quo, i.e. making sure they are not used to (re)inflate the value of pre-existing assets, such as pre-existing property, but in fact used to create new assets, such as new property, and make sure the wealth created is better re-distributed....

    ...failing that, we re probably fcuked! i.e. our most critical of needs, i.e. property, health care, environmental needs, etc etc, will more than likely keep declining....

    ....so yea, the only solution....



  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭questioner22


    Of course, the elephant in the room of immigration will need to be addressed before any attempt at a solution can realistically be made. I've no problem with people moving to Ireland, but there needs to be a cap to reflect the availability of housing.

    Just as they have no intention of fixing the housing issue, they have no intention of fixing the immigration issue.

    It's unlikely that "the right to housing" will be for Irish people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,678 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    I won't dispute any claim that the financial system is utterly broken. However, I take umbrage at this line:

    "the usual right narrative has again presented itself..."

    This left/right paradigm has got to stop. It is not "right wing" or even "left wing" to claim that we have more immigration than what can be accommodated. Immigration is a healthy aspect of any functional society, and I myself and the product of immigrant grand-parents, but tens of thousands of people every year is not sustainable. Indeed, it's already causing upset in a lot of communities, and the branding of people who raise genuine concern as "far-right" is sinister. I'm not saying that that's what you're doing, however.

    Regarding the redistribution of wealth, this already happens through taxation. Rather than giving the state more power with an ambiguously worded change to the constitution, I would rather see it use existing laws make the socially deleterious actions of entities like investment funds or NGOs unprofitable.

    However...

    "...failing that, we re probably fcuked! i.e. our most critical of needs, i.e. property, health care, environmental needs, etc etc, will more than likely keep declining...."

    I agree. I honestly think that there is really no going back from this cliff-edge. All we're doing here is arguing over what colour to paint the toilets in the titanic.



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