Russian warship, go f**k yourself!

No Yosemite, I'm not involved in farming, but I remember as a student working for an agricultural company that sold, serviced and hired out agricultural machinery, including combine harvesters, and I remember helping the mechanics prepare them for the harvest season. And once the season started, there was always a mechanic on standb24/7 for the duration of the season to cover breakdowns. And they did break down. Plus back then, they were much simpler than todays machines, combatively speaking. Anyone fixing nearly any kind of machinery nowadays, will need a computer, and in most cases, only the main dealership will be able to perform certain functions, maybe you have already come across this with your car? Hence my comments about agricultural machinery stolen in Ukraine, and shipped back to Russia where it was subsequently tracked down and disabled over the internet.

I've lived in Russia for several year's, and travelled extensively, so have seen the vast wheatfields, and what is left of the massive Soviet enterprise farms, called "Collectives" but now broken up into private enterprise. But during the Soviet times, when their machinery was very basic, frequently broke down and not as capable or efficient as it is today, hundreds of Russians would be called to their local collective to help with the harvest. And that involved using scythes and lots of other hand tools, rakes etc. Labour in Soviet Russia was never a problem because back then it was a crime not to have job. But in times gone by, we had this too in Ireland when the Scythe and hay rake were a common sight on Irish farms. I'm sure that there are plenty posters here on Boards that remember what Farming was back like in the 60's, 70's and 80's when machines were not as plentiful as they are now, and a lot more manual labour was required.

Your mention of Nuclear war, I do not understand how it fits in the conversation. So far since Hiroshima we have not had any Nuclear wars, to the best of my knowledge.

The whole point of my comment yosemitesam is that Russia prior to February 2022 was in a completely different place to where it is now, or will ever be again ( at least for many years) Putin's war has completely ripped the very fabric of Russia Society apart in every aspect. The departure of key people from society leaves black holes that cannot be filled. The Russian economy now resembles a swiss cheese, full of holes.

Tony, if the Russian soldiers are well motivated, why do they need two lines behind the front line to keep them in place? So line one, the meat for the grinder, are kept in place by line 2, who in turn are "motivated" by line 3 Wagner,. Well, if the Russians are not giving up Soledad easily, well neither are the Ukrainians. The Soledad story is far from finished, IMHO.

There's plenty of programs on BBC ect which show how the kremlin control people and people's mind . One of there methods of controlling protests is to go for the family and associates of the protester , so out goes Herdquitter to show his absolute defiance of the kremlins war , home comes Herdquitter wi5h a busted head , now a draftee and his family still in jail who won't be grateful for his ideas. Feck it says Herdquitter, I should have stayed at home , the war wasn't that wrong after all .Russians learned that long go . Off you go to Moscow with your placard , stand at the kremlin and report back. You might find the locals won't be standing with you

They're also Russians that are in those second and third lines. The Russian army are brutal with conscripts in normal times not to mind now This is nothing new for them just keeping the better trained soldiers alive longer. Soledar is lost to Russia for now anyway after Ukraine fighting there for the last 5 months

If I went into your house headquitter, dragged you out and dumped you unceremoniously into the back of a prison van, would you consider that you were being obedient? Because that's what is happening to anyone who does not go voluntarily to the recruiting centre's when summoned. Come to us, or we will come for you, and believe us, if we have to do that, it will be much worse for you. But its your choice. And in that situation herdquitter, how do you see yourself reacting? Any action carried out under any kind of threat is not being obedient, it's coercion.

And presently, I cannot see any change in the system at least until Putin and his entourage goes. And neither would I blame ordinary Russians for choosing to join the military when called, or alternatively go to jail. Now in further desperation, Putin has ordered the creation of a new battalion , specifically for Russian's who refuse join the military, or to fight, or who desert. Its based on the German Penal Battalion of ww2. The Strafbataillon or penal battalion. I cant fault Russians who literally have to gun put to their heads in Russia, but Russians living outside Russia are a different matter...they could and should be protesting every single day about their opposition to Putin and his war.

herdquitter, I'm not trying to justify or support Russian activity, ( which I vehemently detest) neither do I need to look at telegraph or twitter or any other publication to see what an army, Russian or other wise are capable of doing when it comes to atrocities. I know what they do, because I've seen it. You claim that the Russians themselves will have to and should revolt against Putin, as other Country's have done in the past, and are currently doing in Iran, for example. So that's fine and good when it works. But the problem for me is that with Russia, I don't think that it will work and I've given my reasons why it will not work in my previous posts. It will not work in any Country where the Dictatorship is too strong, and is totally in control of all the levers of power. I quoted the Kim dynasty in North Korea as one such example, but there are others. A quick google of long lasting dictatorships will give you quite a list of dictator's who lasted for a very long time, and died of natural causes at the end, and in many cases, having survived several attempts to remove them.

Putin will only be removed if he dies (A) from natural causes, (B)The Russian Military stages a coup, (B) Collapse of the entire system, triggering mass protests throughout Russia and he is killed. Other than that, it will be business as usual. But presently, I can't see where the few ( or many ) brave men you mention will come from, so I would not be pinning my hopes too much on them as a solution. And this is not to be taken as support for Putin or his detestable murderous Regime.

And again, the same " Its the Russians fault, they could change it if they wanted to" argument and multiple times I've explained why that's not going to happen, because it cannot happen. In twenty years they have not been able to get rid of Putin, despite several attempts. Same as in North Korea in 78 years, the Kim family have ruled with absolute power and total control over each and every aspect of their citizens lives, from birth to death. North Koreans live or die at the whim of Kim Jong-Un. Russians pretty much the same under Putin. So no, I cannot see ordinary Russians having any control whatsoever over what Putin and his Oligarchs do, much less rise up in revolt even if they wanted to.

Another aspect of Russian society/ culture is the complete lack of thrust. Everybody , apparently is a spy there be it your neighbours, your ‘best friend’ (they can be coerced by threatening them or bribing them) even your family members.

so because of the above culture , it would be very hard for a small group to organise anything - AT ANY LEVEL

https://youtu.be/jO94rW4tHNs

It sounds to me that the Ukrainian borders guards are uncooth and ill tempered. That is all I have to say about that.

€9k a month?? do you honestly think he was ever going to see that money?

Well Wagner have been attracting ex Russian soldiers for the past 10 years to go around the world doing every nasty thing you can think of and this lad wasn't at the bottom of their organization so ya I think there's a good chance he would have been paid if he lived long enough.