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Paschal Donohoe expenses controversy

  • 16-01-2023 6:48pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 599 ✭✭✭iffandonlyif


    I cannot get over the amount of coverage that has been given to this story. A constituency businessman and friend lent him a van and some workmen to put up posters. Somehow a valuation of €10k was given to this although Donohoe says, having consulted with the donor in question, that its value is actually €1047. Depending on how you apportion the ‘donation’, he was perfectly entitled to accept them provided he registered them, which of course he didn’t. And now the lead story on the Independent website is that this businessman was appointed to the board of the Land Development Agency, implying cronyism, despite the fact that he was appointed by the minister for housing and that he has waived his trivial allowance of €15k since his appointment.

    I have long been a strong advocate of political oversight, but there comes a point beyond which pursuing trivial mistakes and omissions becomes destructive. Such low-level indiscretions will always be present - Eoghan O Broin, for example, was found last year to have claimed €2500 in ineligible expenses - and if expectations are set that they should be eradicated, the public will be forever be aggrieved. Irish politics has never been less corrupt but giving credence to such stories gives people the opposite impression.



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭Pintman Paddy Losty


    Totally agree. Paschal is as straight as they come. This is a total nothing burger of a story.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,921 ✭✭✭buried


    Don't worry everybody, Fine Gael's current time is up, that's all. Ye'll be back in when the next gangs time is up and rinse repeat

    Make America Get Out of Here



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭walterking


    Some agitator has had this in the back pocket for a while and decided to make a complaint.


    Even sf don't see it as a story.


    Indo trying their best to create headlines saying the guy was put on the lda board but accepts he is not taking any fee nor taking any expenses and effectively giving his substantial expertise free.


    Who'd want to be a politician when you have this crap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,188 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Where did the 10k valuation come from? Did said businessman declare it as such in his tax returns? I've no problem with Paschal, friend offers his van and a few lads to stick up some posters, how would he know it wasn't voluntary and the businessman threw them a few quid, as they were probably offered, why would they do it otherwise. Sounds like he (paschal) got a bit shafted here.

    The conspiracy theory is that Paschal gave him the nod that he'd be appointed to the board in lieu of the posters, lets face it getting appointed to a board can only be good for your career, but didn't know that the businessman was going to declare said astronomical donation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Deregos.


    "Who'd want to be a politician when you have this crap".

    Show me any Irish politician with a perfect, unblemished track record, and I'll show you how to recycle your plastic waste into pure gold.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    What business does.the businessman own?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 599 ✭✭✭iffandonlyif


    Not sure where the inflated valuation came from but it was either ‘SIPO’ or the person who complained to SIPO.

    Certainly how the donation was booked is an interesting question - it’s only legal if the businessman paid for the workmen himself (i.e. as a private donation), as Donohoe now claims was the case. But that’s not Donohoe’s concern and as it’s so small for a company with a turnover of at least hundreds of thousands, I really don’t think it’s of any concern.

    If all it takes to corruptly get a government appointment is the loan of a van and a hundred man hours, Irish politicians are seriously underselling themselves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,842 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    This I think is a pathetic attempt by the independent to try get one up on The Ditch. It's the independent trying to play both sides of the fence, they really don't want to come out against FG but then again they are seeing the Ditch getting all the attention after Troy story and now English so the independent are trying to get a bit of that with this attempt. I am sure if all politicians donations were looked we would be up to our ears in stories like this.

    I will also say that FG have only themselves to blame for this with Varadkar leaking confidential documents, the zappone carey on, then the 'clarifying' of the rules after the Merrion party, dara Murphy making off with his ill-gotten expenses, McEntee and her 4 uncles at tayto Park, even though not FG but Troy and his forgotten 11 houses and now English and his dodgy planning application. This Donohue story would not get any attention except for all the carry on above. FG are now seen as more corrupt than FF which is some going.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭walterking


    Liam Deegan "independent journalist" claimed it had a value of €10,000.


    I'd stick posters up for anyone if that was the going rate!!!!


    Liam Deegan is very much anti FG. He rants non stop about "vulture funds", used to claim that they would be repossessing tens of thousands of family homes (2016) made the same claim again in 2018 and refuses to answer when asked for proof of these repossessions.


    So he has a particular hatred to finance ministers.


    And there's a reason most mainstream media don't publish articles from him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,401 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Cui bono?

    Follow the money.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,293 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,293 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    It’s his job to know. His election agent has to account for all election spend, including any benefits in kind.

    Arent corporate donations illegal in Ireland?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,990 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    I'm not fully aware of the details here but we do need to keep a close eye on where politicians and their friends end up.

    I noticed Enda Kenny was appointed to a board (he is probably on a few boards) last week, think the story was front of the Indo business section at the weekend. While it is not uncommon for former politicians to end up in directorships etc for numerous reasons it's not something I particularly like to see. I'd like to know how much he earns on boards etc for example and would question why people who have been on the public payroll in decision making positions(and who are extremely well paid with various pensions etc) should serve on boards of private companies after they have finished their term?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Jarhead_Tendler




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,130 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    SIPO keeps a register of corporate donors.

    Businesses need to register if giving more than e200

    The upper limit is 1k to an individual and 2.5k to a party.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,293 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    So was the company registered for the year in question?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,130 ✭✭✭✭elperello




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,130 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    It's sometimes called the revolving door and can be problematic all right.

    One of the difficulties of enforcing restrictions on ex ministers is that nowadays they can't collect the pension until they are 66.

    So with politicians starting say in late 20's and losing seat or running out of steam after 20/25 years they need a second career.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,293 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    So that explains why he’s calling it a donation to the party.

    Does that mean that the party donated €1100 of services to Paschal’s campaign that should have been declared?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,719 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    A big huge crimson canvas.

    If the Varadkar document controversy was a nothing burger (and it was, as I always said), then this Donohoe rubbish is one of those tiny little burgers, a slider I think they call them.

    Its a nothing slider.

    Hearing SF bleat on today about this topic was absolutely pathetic. Do they need Paschal to use smaller words, so Louise O'Reilly can understand better?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,488 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    People and businesses make mistakes all the time. Accountants make mistakes on their client's books. Revenue makes mistakes.

    So long as they're found and rectified then it's fine. I can't get over the constant witch hunt of public officials.

    Why anyone would bother with that job is beyond me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    hmm power money, Trips around the world, EU jobs lined up when they have done something so bad they even have to be moved from Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Jarhead_Tendler


    One would almost think it was leaked to take the focus of the real big Mac Mr English



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 599 ✭✭✭iffandonlyif


    If Donohoe goes Ireland loses the presidency of the Eurogroup, as well. Wonder if we’re about to do another Phil Hogan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    In the scheme of things, a few lads putting up posters could very easily be overlooked. It could well be a genuine error and, in the scheme of things, it's peanuts really.

    Move on, bigger fish to fry.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,293 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    In the context of an election campaign, a few lads putting up posters is a central, essential activity at the heart of the campaign, that would have been planned for months beforehand. No one 'forgets' to put up posters, and no one forgets about postering when completing their election spend declaration.

    Isn't it funny how the FG mistakes always seem to go one way though?

    Did Stone pay the lads or did his company pay?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    I guess Paschal could blame COVID?

    Sinn Féin blames Covid for failure to declare €7,000 election expense - Independent.ie

    Little bit awkward for Louise now:

    But Sinn Féin enterprise spokesperson Louise O’Reilly said she wanted to know why he had not amended his statement of expenses earlier.


    Ms O’Reilly said it was baffling that a donation providing work would be made in the teeth of an election campaign and was not considered an election expense. She dismissed the idea of omissions being excusable as the spending is declared after the election, not during the campaign.


    “The forms aren’t filled out in the heat of an election campaign – they are filled out afterwards. And I would still have the question as to if that is credible and I don’t believe it is, because, as I said, afterwards is when the forms are filled out,” she said on RTÉ’s Morning Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,743 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    I worked in a small tech company that did a lot of business in the developing world that required regulatory approval by government in those developing countries.

    They had a local retired TD who was a former minister for Foreign Affairs on the board.

    I have no idea how much he was paid but it was very useful to wheel him out when doing sales pitches etc, it was handy to have a man of his stature representing the company.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 437 ✭✭TipsyMcStagge


    Isn't the main issue here that Paschal was caught telling porkies i.e claiming it was a party donation rather than an individual donation? Also the fact that he's the minister overseeing SIPO is particularly embarrassing. Usually when a politician has to do a press conference like this they are 3 weeks from having a resignation accepted.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 194 ✭✭scuba8


    ’ Much Ado About Nothing ‘ it’s not like he robbed a bank or anything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,682 ✭✭✭Kat1170


    Ask the shepherds about red sky in the morning 😉



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Ari Poor Whirlpool


    Another two years of FFGG is perfect for SF.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,401 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    2 state appointments for Paschal's benefactor Michael Stone. Nice work.

    Fine Gael 'New Politics' document 2011

    The expressions “Golden Circle”, “Crony Government” and “Cosy Capitalism” all describe the same thing: The abduction of our Republic by both public and private sector vested interests, aided and abetted by the present Government. 

     End “Crony Government” in Ireland by opening up government and giving the Dáil, for the first time in its history, real power to hold ministers and public bodies to account;

    All lies

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,889 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    The agitator is the head-the-ball from the seb wummit who funds the "trench" to dig this stuff out on FG after Leo refused to bankroll the seb wummit before it went to ...

    The first referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon held on 12 June 2008 was rejected by the Irish electorate, by a margin of 53.4% to 46.6%, with a turnout of 53%. The second referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon held on 2 October 2009 and the proposal was approved by 67.1% to 32.9%, with a turnout of 59%.

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,842 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    But it was the indo that broke this story and not the F'ing Ditch as ministers like to call them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 599 ✭✭✭iffandonlyif


    No. The issue is that it wasn’t registered as being either. He claims he found out subsequently about the loan of the van, valued at €147 (which he didn’t report for whatever reason), but that it was only since the complaint that he discovered workmen had been lent, too.

    It seems patently clear to me that Donohoe had nothing to gain or lose from declare the donation. The question then comes down to how harshly you view mistakes of this nature. But as someone said before, you can be absolutely certain that every TD has inadvertently filed minorly inaccurate expense returns. It’s just an inevitability.



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Ari Poor Whirlpool


    It seems patently clear to me that Donohoe had nothing to gain or lose from declare the donation. The question then comes down to how harshly you view mistakes of this nature. But as someone said before, you can be absolutely certain that every TD has inadvertently filed minorly inaccurate expense returns. It’s just an inevitability.

    A prominent political figure that broke the rules has nothing to gain?

    I'll tell you what, let's audit all TDs.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I suppose one of the big issues here is that there is little in the way of repercussions for the politicians involved. We have an agency specifically setup to monitor political donations but can only start an investigation if a complaint is made, there should be continual audits and I'm sure we would find a lot more errors in all the parties.

    Mistakes happen all the time but we are often penalized to ensure we don't let it happen again.

    Take your eye off the speedometer bang 160 euro fine.

    Underdeclared your taxes, interest and penalties are now applied.

    Huge fines should be applied when errors are found and I'm sure more care would be taken when filing the declarations.

    While its a relatively small figure here political donations leave the politicians open to owing favors that might not be in the publics interest, that's why we need complete transparency.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,988 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Someone is likely “auditing” many TD’s as we speak - between this and a 14 year old planning application last week, someone or some people are on a mission.

    Lying on a planning app is much much worse than a few election expenses not submitted but it’s deputy dependent what’s uncovered - undeclared landlords and houses should be an easy one to find if they exist but if a TD hasn’t declared these already, they’re an idiot considering the publicity such news has got over the last few years and deserve an outing.

    Must be so stressful being a rich TD- hard to keep track of the olde assets 😀- just awaiting the Pee Flynn moment- try it sometime !😀



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Meanwhile with SF...

    Sinn Féin has criticised Public Expenditure Minister Paschal Donohoe for not declaring more than €1,100 worth of election campaign costs. But Mary Lou McDonald’s party “accidentally omitted” the €7,000 cost of a well-publicised poll, carried out by a London-based firm in the closing days of the campaign.

    The Dail is made of glass and all of them think chucking stones around is a good thing.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭HBC08


    This story is a whole big bunch of meh,

    A nothing slider (haha!) as someone said.

    I don't always agree with Pascal but he's one of if not the most competent minister.

    The fact that the Indo tried to spin it as some big deal shows a good bit of desperation on their part but then again it's been an outlet for eejits for nearly two decades.Outrage sells but there's no outrage over this,embarrassing on a few different fronts.

    A paltry 2 pages on boards nearly a week after it broke tells you all you need to know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 599 ✭✭✭iffandonlyif


    What you seem to think is true by definition is not. A TD can ‘break the rules’ and not gain from it. And why the hell would you bother auditing TDs over such trivial amounts, if only because the cost of the audit would greatly exceed it?

    Absolutely. The crusading journalism of the Ditch seems to consist entirely in such auditing.

    Two pages on Boards but have a look on Twitter. Got a lot of tongues wagging about corrupt elites.



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Ari Poor Whirlpool


    Trivial amounts add up and also test integrity...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭HBC08


    Why would I look at twitter?

    People really have an over inflated view of opinions on twitter,its makes up a very small,very angry amount of people in Ireland.

    Boards similarly but this is no Maria Bailey no matter how you spin it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    The shine went off Paschal a good while back. You'd see through it interviews over last year, as fond of himself as anyone who gets into a senior position for a long spell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,842 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Peter Burke is that you? There is a small difference between with English and Donohue have done compared to what SF did there, Firstly SF admitted the mistake and rectified it right away, off their own backs without needing newspaper headlines to do it. English has sat there and watched what happened to Troy and at no stage has he tried to fix this or own up to it and the same Paschal.

    Look we all know mistakes happen, its easy to forget about a house you own when you have 11, or which cheque can from which donor or which uncle in the case of McEntee or forgetting about lying on a planning application form but at least when you find out about it or you see one of your colleagues having to resign their position over something so minor as forgetting to list that they are a landlord or have an interest in a business, then don't you think it would be wise to hold your hand admit the mistake yourself and correct it. All it does when it is exposed is erode public trust in them or confirm to the public that they are all as corrupt as each other.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,367 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Lads, wouldn't it gladden your heart that our government ministers "scandals" amount to something as minor as this? I mean, when you look at the carry-on of their equivalents in Washington or Westminster it really does make you proud to be Irish.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,842 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    The surface hasn't even been scratched on what our government ministers get up or have gotten up too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 437 ✭✭TipsyMcStagge


    Jaysis the indo is really going after Paschal.



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