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Work related travel, feel deceived and not happy

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,025 ✭✭✭skallywag


    I certainly agree with you OP, if regular travel is required then this most definitely should have been pointed out during the interview. It can be argued of course that you could have asked during the interview phase, and fair enough, take it as a lesson learned I guess. The onus was definitely on your employer to make this known.

    Now, as to how you now go forward, I would certainly not advise passing probation, sticking your heels in, and then hoping you will be safe since it is more difficult for them to get rid of you. They will most certainly be able to can you without too much effort.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,174 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    If travel, either foreign or domestic, is a requirement of a role it will 100% be stated in the contract and in the specification of the role which is being advertised.

    The OP would have every right to complete his probationary period and after 12 months refuse to go anywhere. That's the real point here. Near on impossible for the company to get rid of him for that reason then.

    I fully understand where the OP is coming. If you can't travel having your employer trying to force the issue is unfair and can lead to issues in peoples lives.

    I know there are a lot of company men on here who think the corporations and multi-nationals can do no wrong and we should be kissing there arses every chance we get but a contract is contract.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,689 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    OP I stopped reading one I came to this

    "You're correct regarding my rights during probation, however, if I go option 1 in my original post after passing probation it'll be a lot hard for them to get rid of me."

    Based on 50 years working, some with big international entities, the piece in bold is naive in the extreme. You really seem to be out of your depth here.


    This facet of Irish law apparently doesn't apply to the OP, for super secret reasons that he can't tell us about.

    Strange that the OP did travel before, knew that he hated it, knew that it was possible in his industry, yet despite it being such a red line issue for him he still didn't think it worth his time to ask the question himself in the interview.

    Not that it matters anyway, because the OP has zero interest in hearing anything that doesn't agree with his feelings of hard done by.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I assume it's a hard to fill role so the op thinks they might make some accomodations.

    I'm not sure why your feelings or the ops come into it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,570 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    I wouldnt be taking the moral high ground when your advice is to try pass probation and refuse to go anywhere. What kind of nonsense is that, it is no ones best interest. Do you really think that because its not explicitly stated in the contract that a couple of trips abroad is unreasonable. Nonsense.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,570 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    we haven't been told the locations to be fair.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,927 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    It's far more plausible than an international bank tricking prospective employees into accepting a job under false pretences and then hoping it'll all work out, or that an international bank doesn't have any mention of travel in their hiring documentation. If/when the OP broaches this subject with his/her line manager, I'll bet they will have a very different perspective to the OP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    I see so rather than take the OPs story as is. You've created your own fantasy version of it, because that suits the answer you want to give than then situation the OP actually described.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    From the first post "...country with a very high homicide rate..."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,570 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    yes, so as i said we haven't been told the locations, or where in the country it is either.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,570 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Do you think it's likely that the OP has been deceived wilfully?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    We've been told international travel to another country likely dangerous. Do you want a room number or something.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,927 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Nope, just speaking from my own experience it really, really seems like a big omission from all three of the initial job spec, the interview process and whatever HR documentation (contract, handbook etc) that the OP would have got.

    The OP has also stated that he/she has been "deceived" - i.e. intentionally misled - on a number of other issues as well, after only a week of employment? The travel is the only one we've been given any details of.

    I have absolutely no idea where the truth lies but it seems bizarre that an international bank would be running such a sh1tshow, so yes, I am at least open to the possibility that the OP's take is not 100% complete, unbiased and accurate, or that he/she is simply mistaken.

    TBH it's the OP's flat-out refusal to accept even the possibility that this was an innocent oversight that has my radar up.

    And any employee who talks about "making it harder to get rid of me" is a disastrous hire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Its happens enough to be plausible.

    I certainly wouldn't claim it never happens.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Well thats what you did. Discounted the OP story in favour of your own.

    I would agree that there's enough red flags from this employer that I'd be looking for the door.

    If the company is happy to do what it takes, they can hardly complain when the employee mirrors that and does what suits them. Two sides of the same coin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,570 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    the name of the country would be useful to give some context. And if the country is indeed dangerous im sure the OP can have a grown up conversation with their manager outlining the concerns. However the impression the OP has given is that travel full stop is the issue, the fact that they see the location as dangerous is an ancillary concern.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,927 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I'm not discounting it, just seems like a really unfortunate confluence of events, and the OP is throwing up enough flags to make me believe that there may well be two sides to this story.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,689 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    So its America then. The OP does not want to travel to the United States of America.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,609 ✭✭✭✭lawred2




  • Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The OP doesn't need to name the country, they could list somewhere and the responses would be that it isn't that bad compared to whatever other random place.

    They're not being sent to Zurich or Amsterdam.

    The OP's skills seem to be in demand, given that there was no mention of travel in the interview process, let alone travel to somewhere perceived as dangerous, I wouldn't put it beyond the employer to have deliberately not mentioned it to get someone in.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,570 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    If the OP's skills are in demand then the OP should be easily able to find a job elsewhere where they can ensure during the interview process that they wont be required to travel internationally. As the OP has already stated international travel is the issue, the fact that they feel the country is unsafe is extra information.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,380 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    So basically at no point, before the offer was made and you accepted the offer, was it intimated that travel was a requirement ?

    that’s a pretty sizeable fûckup / dîckhead move on behalf of HR and management.

    look for another job, because such BS will be unlikely be limited to this issue..

    not like you are asked to go to Galway for training it’s a different continent they are sending you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,715 ✭✭✭notAMember


    It should be in the contract or an appendix or policy. Read and re-read those OP, just in case you missed it. Travel is not the same as working in another location. For this march request, be clear and say you cannot accommodate the travel request.

    My own contract has it in black and white, and every contract I issue also has it. I always bring it up in the interview if travel is even a possibility.

    Not everyone can accommodate travel. We are all grown ups here, and plenty of us have other commitments outside work. Not just family responsibilities, also health issues, sports or arts commitments.


    Recruitment is a costly process, and it is plainly stupid to not share a travel expectation up front. The hiring process will be an expensive failure and you have to do it all over again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,927 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    The OP's skills seem to be in demand, given that there was no mention of travel in the interview process, let alone travel to somewhere perceived as dangerous, I wouldn't put it beyond the employer to have deliberately not mentioned it to get someone in.

    It seems counter-intuitive to think that an employer would go to great lengths and expense to get someone whose skills are in demand, only to jeopardise that with deliberate deception of said person on multiple issues.

    The most likely explanation remains an innocent misunderstanding/miscommunication.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Then as you suggest which country is irrelevant as is asking for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    How about you work with the one side you do have.

    Dunno why people have to drag people over the coals for asking a question.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,674 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    You're right that is counter-intuitive to think that it was done deliberately.

    But it is ALSO counter-intuitive to suggest that an MNC HR team just forgot to mention international travel in a job spec. It's a fairly basic part of any job spec these days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,570 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    And pearl-clutching about the perils the OP may be subjected to by being asked to visit this place is also unwarranted.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    Have to say it been fairly common in my experience for employers and HR to be deceptive in recruitment processes.


    I've been sitting on the interview panel when I've seen them at it as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭Hoop66




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,570 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    i presume you have spoken up when your own colleagues are being deceptive?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,715 ✭✭✭notAMember


    Oh I don't doubt it happens. Plenty of immature organisations and stupid HR people.

    I was just leaning the old cliche... Don't ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    This is bit like asking is a place dangerous if I never go there.

    They still "forgot" to mention it.


    "Yes Dmitri its a business "camping" trip We've marked the tour bus with a Z so you'll be able to find it in the car park".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭Hoop66




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    To what end... curious if you thought this through...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Quite a stagging level of ineptitude to forget to mention ...anywhere in the process or paperwork... International travel to spicy locations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,689 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Don't trip while you're moving those goalposts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,570 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus



    you have sat on interview panels where you have seen HR and the employer being deceptive, given your condemnation of the employers here based on the OP's version of events, one would assume you have taken your own co-workers to task when you have witnessed the same thing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,570 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Whether the location is dangerous or not is irrelevant, it could be the safest place in the world and the OP would still not want to go, they added the danger element in to bolster their own argument and to get support from a certain cohort.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Yes I understood.

    I asked to what end. What would be the purpose of pointing out the deception to people that are being deliberately deceptive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The point being you had him at travel. Never mind dangerous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,570 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    What would be the purpose? gosh i don't know, maybe to prevent the deception from happening?

    You are complicit otherwise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I think most people would want to know if they were being asked to go somewhere dangerous.

    I think most people want to know if a job involved travel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,483 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    Well then the issue is much greater than the travel so.

    Why do you want to stick it out if you feel they have conducted themselves badly above and beyond the travel issue?

    A few pages back you were talking about leaving because of these other dishonest issues, here you are prepared to overlook it.

    I don't think anyone can advise you really here when you are conflicting in yourself.

    To thine own self be true



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I didn't have ownership of the panel or process. I can only say my piece and refuse to have any future involvement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 478 ✭✭Figel Narage


    Hi All,

    This will probably be my last post as I'm struggling to keep up with the thread as its grown arms and legs lol.

    Thanks to everyone for your feedback both in support of my view and also not in support of my view, it's all very appreciated. Special shout out to those who offered some solutions as well.

    I've decided I'm going to speak with my manager as soon as the opportunity presents itself and lay out my reservations about travel in a respectful manner and offer a solution. I'll see what he says and we'll discuss it further.

    Apologies to those I've replied to in a snappy way, I've tried to put my annoyance aside when posting in this thread but I reply only when I'm commuting to and from work so my mental state is somewhat altered.

    I will say to those who have said I might be dishonest in this whole thing or I'm a problematic employee, I can't stress enough that is not the case here. I've always worked as hard as I could in any job ive had, worked hard in school, done a masters and never been an issue for managers or co workers and never gotten in trouble before from any employer I've ever had, always gone above and beyond whatever role ive done.

    I've grasped whatever role I've taken on quickly and have been an asset to any team I've been in. That's the feedback I've gotten from my peers and performance reviews in previous roles and I'm making everyone aware of that to emphasise that I'm not someone who causes problems or is difficult to work with.

    I try to say this without any bias but I've been through a few onboarding experiences for international financial services firms and this has honestly been a mess. With it being such a well renowned firm I was disappointed with other things outside of travel. I don't want to mention exactly what they are due to potentially revealing who the employer is, if anyone really wants to know, PM me.

    This is the only time in my career I've ever been in a situation like this which is causing me to act a bit out of character. If anything at least it's a learning experience.

    Thanks everyone and maybe we'll come across each other on another thread!

    Post edited by Figel Narage on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,361 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    I would.

    But if there was even a vague possibility of travel, I would be asking about it explicitly during the recruitment process.

    It ain't rocket science to ask about anything that important to you.



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