ICABS Watch [READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING]

Cass · 06-12-2022 7:18pm

If you can see something from a public place then you can photograph it. If people pass on information they see from a public place this is also fine, afaik.

And frankly it should remain legal. To ask for limitations on such behaviour would trickle down from hunting to all aspects and it would allow for much more overreach by Government already intent on making filming Gardai and other officials while in public not to mention stifle free speech with their atrocious "hate speech" bill.

It's when those people trespass, assault and harass those out hunting is when the law is broken. If anything happens your vehicle you'd need proof so might be worthwhile having a dash cam or even cheap trail cam and setting them up to cover your vehicle while away from it .

Non Playable Character · 06-12-2022 8:11pm

It's a GDPR violation. You cannot hold identifiable information on someone without their consent.

Cass · 06-12-2022 8:24pm

Never thought of that. It's a stretch that this group would have access to DMV records but if it can be used indirectly to identify you then yes, it would be a GDPR issue.

Thanks for the correction and information.

Grizzly 45 · 07-12-2022 12:43pm

Huntsabs Ireland, AKA Munster huntsabs,Connaught Huntsabs,Lenstir Huntsabs, .All the same bunch of soap dodgers and crusties on FB, who occasionally, when their crappy Landrover Discovery works,go out and make a nuisance of themselves around this time of year.

You can have lots of fun with this tip-off line and could send them into all sorts of interesting situations and places. I'll leave that open to your own imagination.

The Editor of Countrysquire rang the Huntsab UK hotline with a tip-off on a well-known animal abuser,by the name of Chris Packham...It's in the link and a good chuckle. https://countrysquire.co.uk/2022/11/24/doing-ones-civic-duty/

They were literally "shot down " by the Irish Aviation Authority for flying an unlicensed UAV over private property too. So yes GPDR is a thing. Esp if they are trespassing on private property filming and harassing a hunt or shoot.

If anything happens to your vehicle you'd need proof so might be worthwhile having a dash cam or even a cheap trail cam and setting them up to cover your vehicle while away from it .

None of the following is legal advice,its from my experience of dealing with surveillance work and the implementation of Data and privacy laws in Ireland.

Dashcam Yes, Trail cam No! Trail cams are generally considered a type of non-permanent installed CCTV, not intended for watching or surveilling people. If you are using it on your own property, you can set them up as you see fit.PROVIDED you are not covering a public road, neighbour's property,or violating someone's private space on your property etc.EG if you are covering your driveway entrance, the camera must be facing inwards to your property. Using a TC like this would be problematic unless you are parked on land or roads that are private and you have the owner's permission to set such up.

Can't really do such on a public road or area. Then there is a problem of how this info is transmitted or stored if it is going to be used as evidence of a crime.This means you need a non-transmitting direct to SD card-only cam...It gets messy.

Dashcams OTOH are there to record an accident or incident to or from your car. They don't retain the info over a certain time on their memories and are not intended for static surveillance of people or objects. IOW catching a couple of HS scum taking a baseball bat to your car from the inside is legal. Setting up a TC in the public parking lot to do so isn't.

Grizzly 45 · 07-12-2022 12:59pm

Just had a look at this Huntsab website,and their little propaganda piece and delusion of getting the case dismissed against them for their messing about with the Scarteen Hunt in Limerick

https://huntsabsireland.com/news/victory-for-irish-hunt-saboteurs-as-we-win-landmark-case-vs-the-state

. Their solicitor Cahir O Higgins,😂

https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/leading-lawyer-cahir-ohiggins-pleads-guilty-to-assaulting-fellow-solicitor-in-dublin/41479102.html

Cass · 07-12-2022 1:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119967075#Comment_119967075

Don't want to derail the thread and I'll admit I'm not fully "read up" on all the laws pertaining to such recordings but recordings and photographs in a public place, where there is no expectation of privacy is legal.

Trail camera take time lapse pictures or record only when movement is detected and as you said are not permanent so how does any of that make using one illegal.

Double Barrel · 07-12-2022 5:42pm

"soap dodgers and crusties"

😂🤩😎

Grizzly 45 · 08-12-2022 12:50pm

Don't want to derail the thread and I'll admit I'm not fully "read up" on all the laws pertaining to such recordings but recordings and photographs in a public place, where there is no expectation of privacy is legal.

100% correct. Its also context to where does it become harassment and intimidation and "in the public interest" stops. IOW Yes,the press or "citizen journalists" [IE any gobdaw with a Cam phone these days] can follow you along the street filming you.They CANNOT follow you onto private property!

So our hunt-sabbing friends can follow a hunt along a public road and make a nuisance of themselves and be in your face there. The moment the hunt or shooting party is on private land[Which is 99%of the countryside that is hunted or shot over].Thats where their "rights" come to a screeching halt!If they follow you it becomes tresspass and they can be told to remove themselves from private property.

As is the no expectation of privacy on private property from the public road if it can be seen. IE your better half decides to sunbathe topless on the front lawn in full public view,and knows there is a public road there, she cant complain of being ogled by all and sundry .Different if you have a 14-foot tall hedge and your neighbour/press/etc has a cherry picker or flies in a drone to get a perv. So in our case they can still film any activity if it is viewable from a public road or place.

So it's not a black&white clear cut issue in these cases. Is filming legal activity harassment in a public place? Depends on the situation and circumstances and for what purpose? A news crew filming for a report has more legitimacy than some foul mouthed black dressed and balaclaved thug being in your personal space with a cam phone.

Trail camera take time-lapse pictures or record only when movement is detected and as you said are not permanent so how does any of that make using one illegal.

INTENT And control

The intent is you set the TC up to deliberately catch a crime occurring in a public place. See how messy this can get already? Be just as easy to park your cars to cover each other with the dashcams and absently mindedly leave them running continuously if they have that feature.

You have no control of when the TC triggers over a public carpark or road so if you catch an innocent party, you have violated their privacy under the GDPR.[This is why the IAA has gone so hot on drones being licensed up to Xmas BTW] Its only your say-so to prove you deleted any such pics that were of no interest that might compromise some innocent party.

As said b4 .NOT LEGAL ADVICE here.Best to check with privacy advocate groups, the DPA offices etc.

J.R. · 16-01-2023 6:52pm

This message was posted on NARGC Facebook page

On Sunday The 8th January 2023 a vermin shoot organised in Kilkenny was targeted by “Hunt Sabs” the shoot was is one that has taken place with the permission of Coilte for the last 48 years and from discussion with the club is a casebook example on how an event like this should be undertaken.

Chatting to the lads in Jenkinstown GC and Kilkenny RGC it was a bit of a nuisance but manageable. The members behaved exemplary when they were harassed by the “Sabs”.

On Friday 13th January both Canice and Shane were on the local radio. The link is shared below and is a very good example of local clubs dealing with a local issue on local radio. So sit back and forward to about 30 minutes and listen to the debate on the radio. Well done lads.

The rise of the Hunt Saboteurs in the UK over the years has becomingly more sinister with recent physical attacks on people legitimately out hunting a growing concern. It is now common to see headlines such as below:

5th September 2022: Five hunt saboteurs sentenced following threatening behaviour towards victims including 15-year-old girl.

The so called “Sabs” purposely go out to disrupt, damage and threaten. Ideally they want to elicit a reaction/response and are ready to go to court to and will assault, lie, and fabricate evidence to get their way. The fact that they refuse to show their faces, wear black and balaclavas or masks is purely an attempt to intimidate and harass. The fact they are running workshops on disrupting hunts and teaching people how to trespass is probably against the law and so when you put 2 and 2 together these people are nasty pieces of work that are out to cause havoc by any means.

As is common with animal rights extremists in every country, they don’t care about managing wildlife populations, They don’t have a clue about conservation. Remember these are the type of Clowns that released Mink from fur farms into the Irish Countryside back in the 1980s, the damage is still be managed by gun clubs across the country.

You will have to scroll to 29:25 to hear the start of the interview with gun club members

https://soundcloud.com/user-76154967/fri-kilkenny-today-13th-january-2023-podcast?ref=whatsapp-image&p=a&c=0&si=a5de8c39609e4cec9efb06be535afdd8&utm_source=whatsapp&utm_medium=message&utm_campaign=social_sharing&fbclid=IwAR2LAg_FoBLliGFI7XXrqVm7N--OcuWskSsrG_hJrXCqu-sYLG_q_noN0KI

Eddie B · 16-01-2023 7:10pm

Lads i rember a discusdion on here a few years ago, about fox hunting, and sabs. A few lads said at the time that they'd target other forms of fieldsports next.

Well its now happening.

Grizzly 45 · 16-01-2023 9:24pm

A few things to take away from this.

This shoot in Kilkenny was advertised for ages,the Sabs [Lenstir hunt sabs FB page] head published about 4 weeks onwards to the event that they were going to hit this. Better protection and involvement of An Gardai in this event could have prevented this

[1] Why wasn't this done? After all firearms were involved and these groups are prone to extreme violence,so what would have happened if one of them had stolen someone's firearm

[2] Why wasn't social media and FB etc monitored by the pro-shooting side to be able to counter such attacks? Would think NARGC,etc would be actively monitoring social media,or employing someone to do so about planned attacks to pass on some info? Or even have a tip line as to be able to report such activity planned by these thugs?

[3] Everyone also has a pretty good camera on their phones these days. Don't be afraid to whip out yours too and film these muppetts threatening you etc.They don't like being on the other end of the camera lens.y have.

[4] In future its best that all entrances to these woods are posted and that we put "monitors" at these points to advise people that the woods are closed for the day...In the nicest possible way, with maybe a Garda present to see the peace is kept?

This is your Enemy!

Rescueme0007 · 18-01-2023 11:49pm

Given the amount of CC TV cameras posted on every street in the country and recording the citizens movements it's difficult to see how trail cams overlooking public spaces would fall foul of GDPR, a much abused piece of legislation. The images might be just the evidence to assist the AGS in prosecuting the woke, virtue signalling, crusty debris for their appalling behaviours and damage to private property.😊

J.R. · 19-01-2023 6:21pm

Police to make hunt sabs remove masks (UK)

https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/hunting/police-to-make-hunt-sabs-remove-masks-414807

This is a law that would be very welcome here

Grizzly 45 · 19-01-2023 8:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120127396#Comment_120127396

Unless you are a public entity, you don't have to post a "Big Brother is Watching you on CCTV!" on every public road or public space to overlook the citizenry. But you DO have to do it if it is on private property, where the public has a right of access. Or where your camera is covering your recessed gates off a public road.IOW it can only cover the recess, not the road itself. And both public and private entities using CCTV ARE subject to GDPR rules of privacy and data.

Trail cams are not generally considered to be [1] permanent installations and [2] Are put up to observe the game and not humans out in a forest.

However, there are plenty of grey areas here about trail cams.If say you used one on private property to cover a tree stand, pheasant pen,etc that has been or you believe will be vandalised by the Sabs. you are entitled to set one up to protect such. Not, however, to cover an entranceway to a let on a public road leading to such.

ASFIK not one has been accepted in evidence in any court case by private individuals or local govt, for Fly tipping or other. Mostly I think it comes down to the chain of evidence, in fact if it is sending a GSM signal, it must go directly to a phone monitored by AGS to receive the pics?Or get a clear enough pic to identify license plates or individuals.

Like drones, this is new technology clashing with dated legislation on privacy and other issues,so it is an utter grey area, until something happens. You can be sure the Sabs know this too, and have enough bleeding-heart liberal law mongers on their side to argue the toss too in court. The sabs Did get in hot water with the IAA when apparently they flew a drone over the private property of the few mink farms left here and posted their "results" on YT a couple of years back.

otmmyboy2 · 20-01-2023 1:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120131509#Comment_120131509

Out of question on the above, specifically:

"Or where your camera is covering your recessed gates off a public road.IOW it can only cover the recess, not the road itself."

So I have a gateway into a let, which is 20 meters off a main roadway which is public, but the let itself is private.

There is no issue with recording the public in public places(ie the roadway) and as you state I am a private entity with a camera covering the public place and my private gateway(my camera covering my gateway isn't a GDRP issue?), I don't see how that would fall afoul of GDPR?

J.R. · 07-02-2023 5:08pm

Letters to the Editor

https://www.southernstar.ie/letters/letters-to-the-editor-silence-the-guns-not-our-feathered-friends-4256929

Grizzly 45 · 07-02-2023 8:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120134156#Comment_120134156

It doesn't. For all of the above reasons;

The well-recessed entranceway,20 meters off the public road.No call to cover the public roadway. The gate/ barrier is 20 meters into private property [which I presume you have posted as such, so there can be no mistakes for people thinking it's some public right of way into the fields/forest of your let?]So if they ignore the sign they are trespassing by accident or design and you have every reason to film /photograph away. It becomes an issue of GDPR as to what you possibly do with the info received and what these people were doing.

IE say fly tipping in your entranceway or poaching and you want to prosecute them.It can get complex then,as this whole issue of using trail cams f or gathering evidence is still pretty much in its infancy here,as well as securing a chain of evidence, and it seems to be a reason some councils are reluctant to use this technology inc UAVs to try and secure prosecutions, and content themselves to big announcements in the local rags.

All I can say on this issue of trail cams and public places coverage etc is.BE CAREFUL! and get proper legal advice on these issues.GDPR,personal privacy and data protection legislation do have teeth here in Ireland,and it still a very fluctuating and grey area at the moment.

Grizzly 45 · 08-02-2023 10:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120212186#Comment_120212186

" Appeasing the Minority...blah, blah,blah"

From a PRO of an organisation that could hold its AGM nowadays in two phone booths side by side... And there are about 200 hardcore followers of the collective rabble of these anti-organisations in Ireland.Compared to how many thousands of license-paying, conservation doing in reality out in the field and not online ranting, law-abiding hunters? Laughable really.