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Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,006 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    If he is fired, shows up and is arrested on criminal trespass. He will be bailed until the case is up with certain conditions.

    No more contempt. It will be violation of Bail, amongst potentially further charges.

    We are firmly away from Civil law and deep into the criminal at that stage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    My heart goes out to the volunteer members of the school board, it's a fairly thankless job at the best of times, but to find themselves in the eye of this national news storm, and have the scrutiny of the world all over every comma and full stop in their board minutes must be very difficult at a personal level.



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 silverdolphin


    To all the people getting upset over Enoch Burke not complying with "preferred pronouns," all I've got to type is **** you and no wonder this country is going to **** because you degenerates are partly responsible for the dumbing down of Irish education. I don't agree with Burke's religious beliefs or what he has stood for in the past but I will defend him in this situation because some of you little narcissists will organise your rallies with your bright coloured hair, wearing second-hand clothes and complain that no one in the country recognises your existence; Then you will whine in your pathetic speeches about what a struggle it is to not have a non-human marker on your passport; *Cue the violin playing.* before appropriating the struggle of racism and homophobia and comparing it to your own because let's face it you don't really have any real struggles to begin with, apart from you being privileged and trying to score points in the Oppression Olympics. It must be hard to be white and bourgeois and be jealous of the real hardship minorities face. It's really the equivalent of a bunch of babies throwing their toys out of the pram because they can't get their own way only in this era, universities, institutions and big pharma will take you seriously because there's money to be made off your stupidity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,006 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




  • Registered Users Posts: 826 ✭✭✭blackwave




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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,782 ✭✭✭knucklehead6


    Come man, get off the fence and tell us what you really feel



  • Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭It is a Dunne Deal


    Can't this headbanger just be put back into jail and leave him there?





  • Go lie down brother. It’s over now, he’s finished.

    According to RTE the BOM will make a decision about what to do with him shortly. There will not be a rescheduled meeting (no point so understandable).

    But rather than try and defend himself they just refused to engage because the chairman wasn’t there. Absolute fcuking clown.

    but aye yea it’s all because Enoch wouldn’t call someone they..

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/0119/1349597-enoch-burke/



  • Registered Users Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Deregos.


    Maybe the Burkes should take Buffalo Bill's stance, and adopt 'it' as their preferred pronoun. Problem solved.

    https://youtu.be/08j-sbTKPvA



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,287 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    One of his arguments has been suggested to be that as the school is a particular category of “diocesan school” that it has a requirement not to recognise non-Christian beliefs.


    realistically, no hotel etc will rent a room to them again. They need to hold the disciplinary meeting so that this can be moved on. A corporate would probably just fire him at this stage and accept that there might be a monetary penalty for unfair dismissal but unlikely to require reinstatement or renegagement. Starve him of the oxygen of publicity.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭Higgins5473


    Just surmising but the monetary penalty for this could be astronomical if they dismiss him and get it wrong. He's unlikely to be able to get a job in another school, ever and that will be a core part of any claim he makes. Loss of career earnings + pension for what's left of his working life will be quite substantial.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,459 ✭✭✭francois




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,468 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Unfair dismissal compensation is generally capped at two years. I suspect they would gladly pay that if they had to, to make this go away. Barraister/legal work must have cost more than that at this stage.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    So the next step is that the Board will meet in Private , without him or any representatives for him present.

    They will almost certainly fire him - I can't see any other outcome as anything less than that won't solve the problem.

    If they sanction him (like demotion or something) he'll still refuse to comply with instructions from management etc.

    He has proven that he is completely unwilling to follow the rules/guidance of his employers so the only option is to sack him.

    He'll refuse to recognise this of course and likely turn up to school again (I fully expect him to be at the school tomorrow) but once he's officially fired him being in the school becomes a criminal matter so he's getting into all new territory.

    We will have multiple appeals and court cases for the next few months , but at least he'll be out of the school and not disrupting the kids further.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,576 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    Based on the what's been reported, it doesn't sound like there's enough there for the school to sack him straight off the bat - I presume this disciplinary hearing is based on the initial issue where he confronted/abused the principal, etc. As such, he'd expect maybe a written warning or something? Especially when the high court effectively ruled that the disiplinary process hadn't been followed correctly.

    I'd have thought that everything that came afterwards (or is still to come) would need to be part of a fresh disciplinary hearing. That said, you'd imagine that the school has received legal advice so that everything is being followed to the letter and they'll get him out sooner rather than later



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,014 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Not yet we're not. Civil litigation remains active.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,006 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    If he does manage to convince one of the courts opened to him that he was unfairly dismissed if that is what indeed happens, awards of this nature are capped. No such thing as getting career earnings + pension.

    Also it is completely up to him to source alternative employment, the courts are fully entitled to take account his actions and how this may have limited future employment opportunities.

    Also I am pretty sure by the end of all this he will actually have a criminal record which will make Garda vetting a challenge for any new school to take him on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,065 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Not before he takes the school to the cleaners for discrimination! And to reclaim the moral ground.

    Post edited by Furze99 on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,468 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    There can hardly be any expectation that his employment will continue in the school, he will never agree to school policy in relation to transgenderism.

    I could be wrong but Ammi was given a payoff equivalent to two years pay by the solicitors firm in Dublin, and dismissed. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the school take the same approach and bring this to an end. He can go to the WRC like Ammi did and try and get reinstated, but it is highly likely that the WRC hearing would go the same way with the family disrupting it.

    It’s a sad end to his career, but it will be wholly deserved.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,014 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    No, the entire thrust of the disciplinary hearing is to do with his conduct around the process. This is all part of that and, in my opinion, it can all be considered now.

    Any other person would have been long dismissed by now for gross and egregious misconduct. I hope Wilsons have the stones to do whats right here and dismiss him in the next few days. They can be absolutely confident of vindication in the inevitable civil action he will take.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,006 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I know, the poster you replied posed the question what happens if he is dismissed.

    Also as far as I aware, the school want to move on from incarceration to asset stripping, with the judgement from that due in the next week or so.



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That loud-mouth mother should be charged with breach of the peace.

    The gob on her.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,468 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    If they sack him, would there be a need to go forward with the asset charge? Wasn’t that to do with his continued refusal to abide by the terms of the injunction? If his employment is terminated, surely it would be the simpler charge of trespass and the Gardai have powers of arrest if he refuses to comply with an order to leave.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,576 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    Much easier for a commercial entity to make a decision like that though - it's worth €X to get rid of person Y and they consider it a good investment for avoiding the hassle.

    I wonder does the school have the funds for something like that and who would be the person/people in a position to make such a decision?



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Years of appeals, if its anything like the NUIG case.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,006 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I'd have thought that everything that came afterwards (or is still to come) would need to be part of a fresh disciplinary hearing

    If he gets dismissed there would be no grounds for a hearing as he isn't an employee.

    AFAIK as long as he is given 7 days written notice of the hearing and what the hearing entails, then they are covered.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,576 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    The High Court ruled earlier in the week though that he had sufficient case to postpone the disciplinary hearing so I don't know what makes you "absolutely confident". I think the school needs to tread carefully unless they have the cash to make the payout



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,576 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    I don't think there's enough in the initial transgression though for the employer to proceed directly to dismissal without going through the process of warnings, etc. Even though we all know that following the typical disciplinary escalation process would be pointless in this instance, they are still obliged by employment law to follow it.



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