Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

BattleCorp · 19-01-2023 3:29pm

All Burke had to do was to agree to stay away from the school and he would have been granted his injunction as the Judge reckoned Burke had a strong case for the injunction.

The judge said he was fully satisfied that Mr Burke had established a strong case that he was likely to succeed in showing that the principal's report was discussed at the meeting to which he was not invited.

He said Mr Burke was also likely to succeed in showing that the attendance of the principal at the meeting was wrongful, given the particular facts of the case.

In this case, the judge said the principal was not only the person who prepared the report to start the disciplinary proceedings, but was also the person against some of the behaviour alleged to constitute serious misconduct was based. The judge found Mr Burke had a strong case to argue that the report itself was flawed.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2023/0117/1349177-enoch-burke/

Looks like Burke snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

Boggles · 19-01-2023 3:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129615#Comment_120129615

No, because he is a teacher he is awarded one more step, Right to Appeal the Boards decision.

So technically he hasn't been terminated until they give their decision, then AFAIK the Board of Ed are informed and it is formalised.

So technically this can go for another 30-40 days, he has 10 days to appeal and they have 20 days to make their decision.

freshpopcorn · 19-01-2023 3:31pm

I don't know how this lad will ever be taken seriously again in employment be it in education or outside of it.

Mainly because of how he dealt with the manner and how his mammy and daddy need to show up and cause a scene.

ohnonotgmail · 19-01-2023 3:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129638#Comment_120129638

WRC appeals are heard in the labour court. appeals from there go to the High Court but only on a point of law not on the substantive issues.

CPTM · 19-01-2023 3:34pm

It's mad really when you consider that essentially this is about two people up against each other fighting for the exact same thing - the right to live freely, away from something society has pushed on them without their agreement.

Boggles · 19-01-2023 3:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129675#Comment_120129675

It's a school though, so there is expressed reasons for gross misconduct.

Serious bullying, sexual harassment or harassment against an employee, student or other members of the school community

Violent/disruptive behaviour

Seems clear cut to me, but sure nothing would surprise here.

they are still obliged by employment law to follow it.

Indeed they are, but that is a 2 sided coin, it is also incumbent on the employee to adhere to the law.

He hasn't.

19-01-2023 3:41pm

How many times do you say he/she him/her on a daily basis directly referring to people , it’s not very many times I guess. So whatever your beliefs it’s easy to avoid.

in enochs case he obviously can’t share a space with the person

having said that I honestly can’t figure what “they” means in this context

ohnonotgmail · 19-01-2023 3:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129781#Comment_120129781

They is the third person singular pronoun just like he/she and him/her

RoyalCelt · 19-01-2023 3:46pm

HIS NAME IS ROBERT PAULSON

It is a Dunne Deal · 19-01-2023 3:47pm

WHERE IS JOHN ROGERS?

19-01-2023 3:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129631#Comment_120129631

i would assume the dept of education would make payments if the school hasn’t got the funds necessary?

Furze99 · 19-01-2023 3:55pm

I'm not sure Enoch is that concerned with the money, this is surely a matter of principle with him. So presumably the hearing will be limited in what actions are open to it based on the reported/ disputed facts. And that's why he went I guess. The school may try to bribe him out but if he's not for taking that bait, then this could go on for a long time yet. I'd reckon he has his eyes set on getting the case into the higher courts. I'll bet the school dearly wished they had played this differently from the start.

BattleCorp · 19-01-2023 3:59pm

The school made a serious boo boo in having the Principal prepare a report that contained findings and conclusions without giving Burke the opportunity to respond.

They made a second and possibly more serious boo boo in reading and discussing that report at a board meeting, attended by the Principal but to which Burke was not invited.

Both of those issues will cause the school a big headache going forward as it can be argued that the report is flawed and that Burke didn't get fair play because it was discussed in advance of a disciplinary hearing. I don't know how the school will overcome that. This ain't finished by a long shot.

Boggles · 19-01-2023 4:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129855#Comment_120129855

No, he can't compel a court into ruling on what he thinks he was suspended for.

All courts have to employ facts.

Not "Burke Facts".

Every single high court judge who has had the displeasure of having him in court have not entertained what he thinks he is in court for, I can't see that changing.

If he does get fired it will be for gross misconduct.

Off to the WRC where I imagine the guards will be called and the case thrown out. Rinse and Repeat.

AndrewJRenko · 19-01-2023 4:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129875#Comment_120129875

Why should he have been invited to the Board meeting? He's not a Board member.

freshpopcorn · 19-01-2023 4:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129855#Comment_120129855

Of course money is important for the Burke's they've got to keep their lifestyle going some how.

Gregor Samsa · 19-01-2023 4:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129781#Comment_120129781

If the issue really was the use of pronouns, he could have just decided not to use they/them, and then dealt with the consequences of that. At that point (assuming there were any consequences) he could have made an actual case about his beliefs conflicting with the instruction.

But as it is, he decided to make a big scene and get himself suspended for that instead - probably knowing full well that he wouldn't have been suspended for the use of any pronouns (and knowing that it was rare that he'd be in the position to use the pronouns in the course of his work in the first place).

This has nothing to do with the actual use of pronouns, and everything to do with the Burkes' ongoing theatrics around their religious and social persecution complex and desire for publicity.

blanch152 · 19-01-2023 4:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129875#Comment_120129875

I agree with you on that. At the very least, the argument that the Board has been prejudiced is strong.

Those mistakes could see the Principal and board members having to resign, Burke will claim a win, but the next principal and board will just be more careful following procedure.

AndrewJRenko · 19-01-2023 4:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129736#Comment_120129736

Nothing was pushed on him. We all have to comply with workplace policies, whether we individually agree or not. All he had to do was not engage with a pupil who isn't in his class. He's not the victim here.

daheff · 19-01-2023 4:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129687#Comment_120129687

Personally I think this is a mistake by the judge. Each issue should be dealt on its merits alone. Refusing him the injunction because Burke is not complying with a separate court order, and at the same time admitting Burke had a strong case, is a poor judgement imo.

This is compounding another poor judgment whereby Burke was allowed to leave prison without purging his contempt.

I'm at a loss to understand the judiciary's decisions here.

Dav010 · 19-01-2023 4:29pm

Silly question I’m sure, but is John Rogers former AG John Rogers?

Boggles · 19-01-2023 4:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129875#Comment_120129875

Serious misconduct is straight to stage 4 according to the Department of Education Circular, which the school is compelled to follow.

In the cases of serious misconduct at work or a threat to health and safety to children or other personnel in the school the stages outlined above do not normally apply and a teacher may be dismissed without recourse to the previous stages

Stage 4 is disciplinary hearing, which he is entitled to attend. He has to be furnished with why he is being faced with the hearing 7 days before it.

Also he is allowed 2 reps at the meeting, normally this would be a colleague or a union rep, not his cult family screaming and chanting.

blanch152 · 19-01-2023 4:30pm

Thinking about this, the clever thing for the school board to do would be to suspend Burke without pay until such time as he apologises for his behaviour and commits to following school policy in relation to addressing pupils.

hynesie08 · 19-01-2023 4:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129993#Comment_120129993

Whatever your thoughts on burke, There isn't a union in the land that would allow an indefinite suspension without pay go ahead.

19-01-2023 4:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130023#Comment_120130023

I don't know, much like the contempt of court, it would be within his power to end it

Former Former Former · 19-01-2023 4:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129993#Comment_120129993

Suspending him without pay would be regarded as pre-judging the outcome of the hearing.

i.e. by withholding his pay, you're effectively saying he's in the wrong before he's been heard, and thus he'd say he cannot get a fair hearing, and then the school is stuck with him forever.

19-01-2023 5:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129875#Comment_120129875

Mate have a look at the shítshow he turned the meeting today into and ask yourself why Enoch wasn’t invited.

Quin_Dub · 19-01-2023 5:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129929#Comment_120129929

The argument isn't that he should have been there , but that his case should not have been discussed in that forum as it might be considered prejudicial.

The two sides dispute the fact that it was discussed however.

The Judges view was that the allegation was a valid reason for a temporary injunction until such time as the actual facts could be determined , but he refused to grant it because Burke was refusing to adhere to an injunction of his own so the Judge felt it unreasonable to grant an injunction to him when he was refusing the honour the injunction that the board had on him.

In other words the Judge determined that Burke couldn't have it both ways.

AndrewJRenko · 19-01-2023 5:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130023#Comment_120130023

Can't imagine that he's a signed up member of ASTI or TUI.

Though indefinite suspension doesn't sound feasible. I hope the school are getting expert HR/legal advice, as the man on the street, or the man on Boards really has little clue about how best to progress this.

Dav010 · 19-01-2023 5:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130134#Comment_120130134

The school had a Solicitor at the hearing today (which the Burkes objected to), and have had a Barrister on the case since the first injunction application, so it’s fair to assume they are getting expert legal/HR advice.

Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

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