Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

RuPi · 19-01-2023 4:18pm

Is Stockdale only there because he is on a central contract? I can’t think of many central contracted players not being selected for squads.

snotboogie · 19-01-2023 4:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128681#Comment_120128681

He is an extremely limited playmaker and is fairly error prone. He beats the first and second man a lot after fielding kicks but it’s usually to get himself or Munster out of trouble, its extremely rare that he turns defence into attack from around his own 22, where he makes most of his runs, because of his limited playmaking and lack of elite pace. Against set defences when Munster are on the attack he generally contributes very little. He is a good provincial player but not international standard imo.

Larbre34 · 19-01-2023 4:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129622#Comment_120129622

Indeed I do. He's been playing extremely well.

aloooof · 19-01-2023 4:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129966#Comment_120129966

We can debate his play making, but he doesn’t strike me as an error prone player at all tbh. Quite the opposite, in fact, I think he’s extremely dependable.

Former Former Former · 19-01-2023 4:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129944#Comment_120129944

There are none (Henshaw is injured). Yes, I think Stockdale is in the squad based on his contract but I don't believe it will carry over into team selection, nor is anyone really losing out with him being there.

phily2002 · 19-01-2023 4:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129944#Comment_120129944

A lot of people feel it plays a part. I don't think it guarantees inclusion but it obviously helps. If you look at the squad the players who are lucky to make it are Stockdale, Earls and Murray to a lesser extent too. You'd have to feel the CC helped them out here because they're not there on form

Larbre34 · 19-01-2023 4:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129998#Comment_120129998

Only room for one 'dependable' 10 in the Squad and thats RB, cos he offers 'dependable' at a higher return level than Carbery just now.

Unfortunately Carbery just hasn't offered playmaking and control at a level required by an Ireland squad of this level of ambition. There are better options and they have been selected.

If Ciarán Frawley were fit, he'd be in ahead of one of the other two as well.

This is just life in a massively competitive environment and I find it odd that people here are asking if Carbery is injured etc. Have you watched all the contenders play recently?

aloooof · 19-01-2023 4:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130029#Comment_120130029

I was replying about Mike Haley. Not the 10 position.

But while I’m here:

I find it odd that people here are asking if Carbery is injured etc.

It’s cos, since Farrell’s started, any time Joey’s not been injured, he’s been picked.

I didn’t see anybody suggesting he’d be dropped from the squad prior to today.

19-01-2023 4:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129527#Comment_120129527

Beirne has gotten a lot more recognition this year in the row than Ryan has - wouldn't be putting either as first name down on the team sheet over the other. That said - in the IRFU team sheet he's listed as a second row, I don't think he'll feature at all in the backrow unless there are injuries.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129577#Comment_120129577

I've been a big fan of Coombes for a long time. I think he's a better tight carrier than Doris, they both have a strong breakdown game. I think in most other aspects of the game he's behind Doris. In particular for Farrell style Ireland I think the fact that Doris has an incredible pass and very good pace really stand to him. Both are very smart players but I haven't seen Coombes really unlock teams with a bit of craftiness - it's more his power that stands out.

Great to have them both, but on current performances I'd have to disagree with Paul.

phog · 19-01-2023 4:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130029#Comment_120130029

I'd argue it's not one bit competitive, it's trying to get the best of a bad lot after Sexton. All 3 (4 or 5 if you want to add HB & Frawley) have their limitations and Farrell must have a headache in trying to see which one will give him the best chance of a win if he has to rely on one of them.

I also wonder if Farrell knows Sexton is out a few days before a game will Joey be called up and straight in as a starter.

Larbre34 · 19-01-2023 4:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130032#Comment_120130032

Before Jack Crowley put together a good run.

Irrespective of Carbery's prior selection, it doesn't surprise me one iota that the three selected are those three and that it's at Carbery's expense.

Selecting favourites irrespective of form is Eddie O'Sullivan era stuff.

Akrasia · 19-01-2023 4:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129527#Comment_120129527

I don't think Farrell has selected this squad for a 3 lock pack, only bringing 4 locks into camp, I think they'd have brought one or two fewer back row forwards and one or two extra locks

aloooof · 19-01-2023 4:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130065#Comment_120130065

That’s fine.

But absolutely nobody (including yourself) was saying this before the squad was selected.

aloooof · 19-01-2023 5:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130048#Comment_120130048

I think Coombes is a better offloader as well fwiw. (Possibly a better lineout option too but it’s closer).

But Coombes is so strong in the tight, he often attracts multiple tacklers. That causes compressions in defence, where you see a try out wide 2-3 phases later.

Coombes won’t get the assist, but he’ll have had a very large part in unlocking the defence.

I’d still be picking Doris at 8 for sure (he’s absolutely top quality). But I’d love to see Coombes get an opportunity on the bench.

And I wouldn’t be at all opposed to see them both line out at 6 and 8.

phog · 19-01-2023 5:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130048#Comment_120130048

Use them at 6&8 or maybe give Coombes his opportunity v Italy and see how that goes.

I'm not here trying to push Coombes ahead of anyone but I do think he warrants an opportunity.

19-01-2023 5:19pm

The backrow selections look more than a little imbalanced when you look at the squad.

All of POM, Baird, Prendergast, Conan, Doris, Coombes, Beirne & Henderson have started games at 6 this year or relatively recently, but only really JVDF and POM as options in the 7 shirt.

It's interesting that behind Timoney (who it seems was dropped on form grounds, fair enough), AF doesn't seem to see any of the next contenders as ready.

phily2002 · 19-01-2023 5:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130190#Comment_120130190

I still think Connors will get back in before the world Cup if he gets a run of games together. Hodnett and Penny probably a bit unlucky not to get in as a second 7.

Crazy competition as usual. Will be interesting to see if Farrell sticks with the tried and tested or mixes it up.

On form you'd probably go with

Coombes, VDF, Dorris to start.

Baird and Conan are both hitting good form as well. Lots of options

CIARAN_BOYLE · 19-01-2023 5:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130068#Comment_120130068

There's 3 backrows with experience at lock (Baird, Coombes and Pendergast).

While I doubt a 3 lock pack is the goal (POM Doris and VDF are too good) I wouldn't argue that there's too few locks to do a 3 lock pack.

19-01-2023 5:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130252#Comment_120130252

Yeah, I guess the argument is that JVDF is a clear #1 in the 7 shirt, followed by POM, and after that it's better to let the likes of Connors / Penny / Hodnett / Kendellen / Timoney keep getting gametime for the provinces.

Podge_irl · 19-01-2023 6:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129640#Comment_120129640

I agree with them both, and if Conan is bothered he could work on being better than Doris (he'll fail though).

I'll stand here all day and defend the idea that Doris is the best of our backrow. He has worked out his handling issues and silly propensity to give away penalties. He has everything else.

almostover · 19-01-2023 6:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129337#Comment_120129337

Jack Conan will be the incumbent for the 20 jersey and is a test Lion. But Coombes is something a little different. Freakishly strong in tight exchanges but not the athlete that Conan or Doris are. I'd like to see him start at no.8 for the Italy game to see if he can bring his club form to the international stage.

Podge_irl · 19-01-2023 6:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130029#Comment_120130029

Carbery and Byrne are just not comparable for what they bring to the game and they are in no way in a "dependable" shoot out. Carbery can bring the ball to the line in a way that Byrne could only dream of.

Now, Byrne has improved there better than I expected and Carbery's decision making about when to do that is still questionable. But I still think Byrne's peak crosses over Carbery's level only for a small bit, the latter has a higher ceiling. Maybe they've just decided he'll never reach it. I still think its weird timing given he has been playing better for Munster.

19-01-2023 6:22pm

Still getting my head around Carbery. I'm wondering given he's had a run of games has he not been able to show key improvements that a run of games was hoped to have delivered? I definitely thought he was playing better rugby. Still leaning towards defense.

Another factor is attitude and this more applies to Ross Byrne. It's a very tight Ireland camp, they seem to enjoy each others company and Farrell talks all the time about it being fun. Thought Ross Byrne has been a bit more mature and relaxed in his media exposure the last year or so - small things can play a part.

As has been pointed out he's turned games around single handedly recently and showing some nice flare. Bit of composure can go a long way.

Question: Will there be a nailed on second choice 10 by COB March 18th?

almostover · 19-01-2023 6:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130048#Comment_120130048

It depends on what the coach wants from their no.8. Doris is an all rounder, strong in most facets of play. Similar style of player to Kieran Read, athletic, good footballer, nuisance at break down and pacy. Coombes is a hark back to no.8s of yesteryear. Very strong, makes ground in contact, lethal from inside 5m, bosses it in the tight. He's a little caught for pace and athleticism vs. Doris and Conan. It's a horses for courses type of selection. If we were still playing Schmidt ball à la 2019, Coombes would have more caps.

19-01-2023 6:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130284#Comment_120130284

I'm presuming a Ryan Beirne row and POM VDF Doris backrow.

Henderson Conan the likely bench but could be Henderson Baird who comes on at 6 on the bench. Harsh on Conan.

19-01-2023 6:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130509#Comment_120130509

I'm not sure it is horse's for courses though. We're not looking to beat teams up physically, we run them ragged with accurate varyied passing to pods of attackers and recycle fast. Coombes needs to be the horse that can do that.

19-01-2023 6:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130495#Comment_120130495

Question: Who do you think will be the second choice outhalf for the Wales game?

Is Crowley still ahead of RB (as he was for Australia), or, will Byrne's form see him elevated?

ulsteru20s · 19-01-2023 6:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128758#Comment_120128758

Yea, this. His form never mattered before lol.

randomname2005 · 19-01-2023 6:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130534#Comment_120130534

I reckon RB. It will be a high pressure game, gatland back with Wales and the new coach bounce, having a more experienced player as back up to Sexton will swing it for RB imho

ulsteru20s · 19-01-2023 6:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128293#Comment_120128293

Yea, McCarthy is a dev guy even if not officially at a position of need.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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